Why Virtual Reality for BMS would improve the experience by order of magnitudes.
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Wait, you think RL fighter pilots bring a bunch of manuals that they open to read checklists mid flight for everything from takeoff to FENCE in to dropping bombs?
What, you mean this isn’t what pilots do in flight?
then again, that’s a F-14 RIO so maybe technically he doesn’t count?
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As a “real world pilot” I always use checklists for each phase of the flight. In an emergency the first few tasks are memorized for immediate action. Then as time allows you go over the checklist items for the particular emergency to make sure nothing was missed.
That would be the standard among real world pilots.
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Those first few items being CAPS - Critical Action Procedures. Execute the CAPS, then time permitting look it up in section 3.
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jcook: The amount of lists you bring along for a flight would probably have to be decreased if you’d have to start considering not having papers flying around like mad bees in the cockpit during a SAM break, not losing situational awareness in an environment where people shoot at you, and being able to safely operate an ejection seat if it comes to that.
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Kept in a folder and secured. Seriously, they carry a heap of stuff with them. Also, checking those papers is part of the ejection checklist. Yes, there is a checklist for ejection - several actually, depending on the circumstances of the ejection.
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Thanks Blu and jcook for the confirmation!
jcook: The amount of lists you bring along for a flight would probably have to be decreased if you’d have to start considering not having papers flying around like mad bees in the cockpit during a SAM break, not losing situational awareness in an environment where people shoot at you, and being able to safely operate an ejection seat if it comes to that.
Isn’t there a term for this? Stuff that isn’t secured in the cockpit and might get in the way when doing maneuvers? The term escapes me at the moment.
But yeah, there’s a reason the kneepad is secured to the leg. There’s a reason papers are kept in a secure container that is just out of the way but still easily accessible. As for lists, personally, I’d rather have too many lists and not need them than realize too late that I left that one list I really, REALLY needed. Plus for professional pilots (commercial and military), I would suspect that they’ve pared down their “paperwork” down as much as they can while still remaining safe. Nobody would bring a “how to operate the coffee machine” checklist if there is no need for it in any conceivable in-flight emergency.
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scrim: someone in the forum asked how real pilots use checklists - so being a real pilot I answered. Checklists are used in small aircraft all the way up to the largest transport. We use them for pre-flight thru shutdown; the more complex the aircraft the more checklist categories and items. Not sure why you don’t understand this. Take a few lessons in a real aircraft and try telling your instructor you’re not going to use checklists and instead you’ll just memorize everything. See how far you get with that and report back.
As far as “…having papers flying around like mad bees in the cockpit during a SAM break”, kneeboards with small ringed-binders are used to keep everything in place. This really isn’t a problem.
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My ab initio instructor largely didnt refer to the checklists; he viewed it as something for the students, and he relied on memory. Of course, it was his plane we flew in, that he flew on a daily basis, so perhaps you could forgive him that.
Ive made it a priority to memorise checklists for Falcon, but I would assume (note the presumption) that RL viper pilots would be expected to carry out those processes by the checklist most of the time.
Isn’t there a term for this? Stuff that isn’t secured in the cockpit and might get in the way when doing maneuvers? The term escapes me at the moment.
If the canopy is open, you can call it FOD. Theres certainly a checklist item for it - secure loose items. Not sure if there is a more specific term than ‘loose items’.
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I am a RL civilian flight instructor, as Blu3Wolf says while there are definitely memory items (“bold face”), you still use the checklists every flight. To not do so has resulted in numerous crashes in aviation history.
Military pilots from day one have “stand ups” where they are called on to repeat the aircraft’s rote memory stuff including emergency checklists. This doesn’t mean you don’t run the checklist if you have time or to use it as a true checklist instead of a things to do list. IIRC, most “abbreviated” fighter checklists are sized to fit in a G suit leg pocket. Also many pilots (as does Dee-Jay too) use this kneeboard specifically designed with a special clip to hold down charts and line up cards etc. in negative Gs and hard maneuvers: http://www.flyboys.com/fb1316.html I believe this one is the U.S. Military issue kneeboard that would use an elastic band or plexiglass clip in fighters to help hold stuff down: http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/military-spec-kneeboard.html The helmet bag is stowed in different various locations often holds the “full” checklists, other charts + plates. Also the F-16 has a couple storage areas: http://www.dekkers.net/Right_Console/
FWIW, I use a tablet in BMS as a EFB with RedDog’s checklists. You know my thoughts on how I would use it with VR.
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I will start the jet from memory (you get fairly proficient at it over time) then I run down the checklist to confirm everything while waiting to taxi. I fly single player, so my “in pit” to take off is planned for thirteen minutes. Still gives me plenty of time.
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I will start the jet from memory (you get fairly proficient at it over time) then I run down the checklist to confirm everything while waiting to taxi. I fly single player, so my “in pit” to take off is planned for thirteen minutes. Still gives me plenty of time.
Yes, this is the true checklist usage of a RL experienced pilot as well, as a "check"list, not a things to do list.
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Gonk posted this link over in the HTC Vive thread, thought I would cross post it here. Again, not 100% what we need yet but things like this are going to come about that will work especially if there are more of us who get into VR and tell developer/develop ourselves what the sim community specifically needs. Watching some of the DCS+OR CV1 videos is making me kind of jealous…
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I just got my processing e-mail from Oculus, so I hope to have the Rift in my hands in a week or two. After doing a bit more digging, I think the most likely way to get VR in BMS is to use TriDef 3D to inject the side-by-side stereo image and then use Virtual Desktop. Virtual Desktop can be used to project the image on a virtual monitor in front of you (this will be for the 2D UI), but can also simply provide barrel distortion for SBS 3D content (this will be for when you’re in the pit). It will take some tweaking to get the TriDef settings correct and to set the Falcon FOV to something comfortable in the Rift (likely about 100). Tracking remains a challenge. Previously Opentrack (free on Github) could use the DK2’s tracking information and translate it into TrackIR movement, but I’m not sure if it has been updated to the new Oculus SDK. You could use a secondary tracking solution on top of the Rift’s. Using another injector, like Vorpx or Virieo would be another solution, but Tridef seems like the best option for D9 games for now. Dealing with reference material, the low resolution of the image, and handling the mouse cursor. I’ll post with any updates.
-Rabbit
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Thanks for the update Rabbit!
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If using VR interferes with your sim cockpit, then just don’t enable the VR features? That really isn’t a valid reason to never introduce VR, especially considering those with external mfd’s etc are probably the minority of BMS users. Don’t like it? Cool, don’t use it. There are lots of other people who would enjoy the immersion. That being said I have no clue of the complexities of integrating all the logistics for VR, so there could be other much larger road blocks for implementation.
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Hey!
Just wanted to share a nice read on the topic for all who might be interested.
http://www.mudspike.com/oculus-rift-cv1-first-impressions-with-dcs/
Greets!
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Roie Gat has a good YouTube channel with the CK1, he is also on the Gazelle team:
https://m.youtube.com/user/TheOtherWhiteMeat22? -
A long read to get to the core info/op’s question, that boils down to a debate between peps that wants to switch switches and peps that want the most out of the motion picture.
I think its healthy with a good debate, but just protecting your own investment isnt that fruitful. VR can be outstanding for those who wants it. Peps with realsize cockpits with every switch in, is fortunate and rightfully proud. Lets focus on a solution on that specific VR -Falcon Bms problem here. Multimonitor and mfd’s has a trillion of space for info on this forum.
Peace and progress!
/Jaws
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Reading these comments on this and other reviews makes me wonder if it is time to revisit 3d glasses for sims, especially for those of us with multiple monitors. Wide screen 3D with headtracking is what knocks people’s socks off in flight/racing sims, and a lot of us have 2/3 of that. Yes there is the whole room aspect of the Vive, but that isn’t what we need in sims (yes I know there are a few walk around going on in DCS).
On my personal VR front, I have a Deepoon E2 headset coming this week, which is suppose to be DK2 level resolution that only has and pitch headtracking. Also it at least had support for most of the OR games through SDK 1.3, but not sure now with all the lock down Facebook seems to be doing with the Rift. It at $220 shipped with a coupon code, I figured I can get that value of enjoyment out of it in 360° videos alone.
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Hey guys,
just had to ressurect this thread because a few days ago I had my first minutes in the DCS P51 Mustang with the Oculus Rift.
Just wanted to say to everyone who may think VR support is not worth the effort: Please, try it first. If you tried it and stay with that opinion, its yours. But for many this will be a game changer.
I mean, I am into flightsims for so many years. And I knew what was coming. The Mustang.
But when I entered 3D it was just “Whooooooooo hoooooooooooo - W-T-F??!?!”
I mean there I was… sitting inside that damn thing. Looking out seeing that wing… so f**in big?!
Rolling that thing you have to take care not to get sick. Amazing.For me it really was a WOW effect even after so many years of simming. Forget 3D effects in cinema. Forget what you see on videos or panorama photos. You need to try it.
This has to be the closest you can get to flying a real airplane.
And for those 600 to 700 bucks… for me they already paid of in those first few minutes. I really had an experience, no other simulation I tried came even close to. Without even leaving my house. LOL.
Using the mouse inside the cockpit was not as easy as on a monitor but doable. Just honoring the experience here, not going into the pro and cons for tactical combat.
Just wanted to share!