Why Virtual Reality for BMS would improve the experience by order of magnitudes.
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Hmmm? No go cause of low resolution?
Are you on beta or final retail versions?
IIRC their retail release resolution should be OK.Sent from TapaTalk
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IIRC their retail release resolution should be OK.
Nop, a long road ahead before the resolution reaches a number that will be suitable for flight sims.
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That’s something I find confusing. A bunch of people are complaining that the resolution isn’t good enough to even consider using it, and some that you need a constant +90 FPS. Then there are loads more who say that resolution complaints are total nonsense, and even one or two who’ve said that a <60 FPS isn’t an issue at all.
And these are all people who have, with their own money, purchased a VR headset and used it in DCS.
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more who say that resolution complaints are total nonsense
Please mention here any links / posts of such comments.
IFAIK no VR user can clearly see and read the CP clocks from the normal head/body position… They have to move forward close to the clock to read the details.
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hmmm
OC and vive both are @ 1080x1200 per eye @90fps… lol overkill with medium to high res. It sounds like it’s in the edge of what is needed for flight sims. If you zoom in (lean forward) ain’t the dials readable?it asks for 400€ and on top you must have a killer pc for those 90fps hmm in total you are around (not to say more, above) the 2.000€ just for pc and VR. they are crazy.
the target is PS and Xbox 400 the console and 400 the VR so with 800 you get your FIX.
Anyway to port BMS to PS4??? Tommo must have the connections for this… :lol:
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That’s something I find confusing. A bunch of people are complaining that the resolution isn’t good enough to even consider using it, and some that you need a constant +90 FPS. Then there are loads more who say that resolution complaints are total nonsense, and even one or two who’ve said that a <60 FPS isn’t an issue at all.
And these are all people who have, with their own money, purchased a VR headset and used it in DCS.
The hz for the screens are so high, because that is the point at which most humans won’t see flickering.
The 90 fps requirement/recommendation is for preventing dropped frames causing shaking and nausea. Oculus has something called AsyncTimeWarp. This warps the image between dropped frames, so that it sort of fills-in the view, preventing you from noticing judders or skips which will make you barf. This only helps rotational movement, positional movement as well as the rest of the world external to your movements, will skip like low fps does. You notice bad fps way easier in virtual reality.
When you go below 90 fps, your sense of ‘being there’ as well as your perceived resolution of the world dramatically goes down. You can survive 45 fps, but the resolution will be perceived poorly and you will not feel like you are there at all. Not to mention it will be slideshowy and AsyncTimeWarp can only help so much before you wanna barf.
About resolution, You need to supersample, which means render higher resolution than the screens, then it will squish it to fit your screen. This will provide the best anti-aliasing. But its expensive for the cpu. This along with 90 fps will increase the perceived resolution you get, because you will have more mini-movements (your head actually has tons of micro movements), which will also help the anti-aliasing. Anyways you can’t see jets on a monitor anyway as well without smart-scaling.
Another thing that matters a lot is the Inter-Pupillary distance calibration. You need to set it up properly, and also adjust the headset position so that your eyes are centered vertically as well. The green cross in the calibration setting needs to be perfectly clear. The horizontal bars depend on if you have the headset high or low enough, and the vertical bars depend on your ipd.
If you do things properly and with patience, it will be good. People have different expectations, some people want their macbook retina display resolutions, you will not get that, but you can get comfortable. If you want everything to look the best it can it will require an analytical mindset or patience, because it is really easy for things to look bad if you don’t have a clue what is going on.
The feeling of being there, outweighs everything. I can absolutely use my checklists and stuff still. I hate having to go back to the monitor with BMS for our flight nights, it doesn’t compare. I am making progress in finding the issues in the drivers, so hopefully I don’t have to wait longer.
People that say Virtual Reality is for like dogfighters or arcade mindset but that is not true. If you don’t like to look through the gap at your checklists or mfd buttons, there are alternatives. Simply rendering the checklist pages to the bottom of the screen with a joystick key combo and flipping through the pages as you ramp-start is good. You could even have wdp cards pop up if you want, in addition to your kneeboard mods.
I mean I fly hardcore, tac formations, cloverleaf bombing patterns, grinders, single-side offsets, in 24 player missions in the wing, refuel only in turns etc, ramp start every time, study the unclassified employment manuals. It will not hinder any of that for me.
I prefer clicking the cockpit switches with the mouse as opposed to using hmcs-style cursor clicks, but that would be easy to add. I don’t touch the keyboard.
Besides the f-16 hotas was designed so you wouldn’t have to mess with switches while in high intensity combat. Well, whatever to them.
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Please mention here any links / posts of such comments.
Link any and all persons who’ve said the resolution was good enough? Eh… No. No, most certainly not.
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People that say Virtual Reality is for like dogfighters or arcade mindset but that is not true. If you don’t like to look through the gap at your checklists or mfd buttons, there are alternatives. Simply rendering the checklist pages to the bottom of the screen with a joystick key combo and flipping through the pages as you ramp-start is good. You could even have wdp cards pop up if you want, in addition to your kneeboard mods.
I mean I fly hardcore, tac formations, cloverleaf bombing patterns, grinders, single-side offsets, in 24 player missions in the wing, refuel only in turns etc, ramp start every time, study the unclassified employment manuals. It will not hinder any of that for me.
I prefer clicking the cockpit switches with the mouse as opposed to using hmcs-style cursor clicks, but that would be easy to add. I don’t touch the keyboard.
Besides the f-16 hotas was designed so you wouldn’t have to mess with switches while in high intensity combat. Well, whatever to them.
Very insightful, thanks for the input! Is this with Oculus or Vive?
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I have the Oculus Rift(CV1) and it is awesome, maybe not good enough for the hardcore players but sure enough for me. I have a 970 so I play DCS A-10C on minimum(no supersampling) with fps drops and lags and it is still awesome and playable and I can see the instruments easily(sometimes I have to move closer a bit + I turn on the instrument lighting on for better contrast). First it felt not enough to be playable but as I had “no other choice”(I don’t have trackir ) I had to force myself to use it / learn how to use it and now it is quite good and I have a T16000M not even a HOTAS. I can find everything I need on the keyboard blindly or use the mouse to click the cockpit. The resolution is lower so yes it is harder to spot enemies however supersampling helps it a bit.
I think the devs should make the game at least vorpx-able. In the game everything is in place 6DOF cockpit, clickable etc. and in Falcon F-16 the HUD is actually bigger than in DSC A-10C so it is easier to read in VR plus probably we can get more FPS out of it so maybe even I would be able to play it with my 970 with 200% supersampling with steady 90 FPS ^^.
Vorpx status now: Menu works, the game is black but not crashing at least, I can exit and get back to the menu.
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Very insightful, thanks for the input! Is this with Oculus or Vive?
Oculus Rift CV1
I think the devs should make the game at least vorpx-able. In the game everything is in place 6DOF cockpit, clickable etc. and in Falcon F-16 the HUD is actually bigger than in DSC A-10C so it is easier to read in VR plus probably we can get more FPS out of it so maybe even I would be able to play it with my 970 with 200% supersampling with steady 90 FPS ^^.
Vorpx status now: Menu works, the game is black but not crashing at least, I can exit and get back to the menu.
Thats great. I hope they beat me to it, in Vireio Perception nothing is rendered to the back buffer for the menu still. I’m still digging and logging all the calls to figure out why. GiGurra had the source to his proxy online i’ve got that downloaded to compare, though I don’t think his goes into the menu.
I got the Hud to render far away and bigger I just haven’t figured out the math to keep it proportional. There may be a problem with the LOD, after a certain distance it disappears if you look at it directly, but it shows back up from the corner of the monitor. Maybe bms devs could have an option to increase the distance before it disappears, though it might have been past the max view distance. All we need is the HUD to render at the max view distance or the beginning of the gray fog for it to be nice to use.
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I think we are in a new era, that listen to the name GTX 1080…
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A new version of vorpx just came out and now the black screen is gone I’m in the cockpit:) Headtracking is working if I’m in the ESC menu(not in the cockpit), unfortunately 3D doesn’t work. But as it is it is past midnight I didn’t play with the config at all maybe it is working, I try again tomorrow.
I almost forget I removed triple buffering and added high resolution textures.
P.s.: Actually I’m happy with 2D and headtracking now still better than nothing :).
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A new version of vorpx just came out and now the black screen is gone I’m in the cockpit:) Headtracking is working if I’m in the ESC menu(not in the cockpit), unfortunately 3D doesn’t work. But as it is it is past midnight I didn’t play with the config at all maybe it is working, I try again tomorrow.
I almost forget I removed triple buffering and added high resolution textures.I
P.s.: Actually I’m happy with 2D and headtracking now still better than nothing :).
Rift or Vive???
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Rift but vorpx just received Vive support so it should work with both.
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It doesn’t work and without the distortion it is not good in 2D + the headtracking is an emulated TrackIR(opentrack) which is not the same as it goes “on rails”.
P.s.: But DCS got a nice VR update with supersampling so I got that goin’ for me which is nice
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please post shoot!
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Man I miss BMS. Wish this game could support VR so bad.
As to the resolution of DCS cockpits. The current state of DCS… I can read everything without any weird head movements. With the added pixel density support the cockpits are -almost- as clear as they were when I played on my 1080p TV.
The outside resolution is of course lower, but I can spot my targets 90% of the time. If I’m having a little trouble spotting something, I use VoiceAttack, just a quick labels on, then off again once I have it.
Air to air refueling is a joy now, not a hassle. The tanker and basket are HUGE! I’m on first try and stay on with no disconnects at all. I was -never- able to do that on a monitor. (yes I’m a crappy “pilot” :))
As OldGoat said earlier… The sense of immersion and the feeling of actual height and depth. Can’t be beat. I moved my 50" 4k upstairs and just recently sold my track IR. I’m never going back. Can’t. Feels like a video game after VR.
My virtual squadron has four RW pilots in it now. Two of them fly with the Rift and have stated that DCS (and I soooo wish BMS) in the Rift is the closest you can get to what flying in RW actually looks/feels like. So that’s good enough for me, I’ll take the resolution hit. My guess is two years and we’ll be in at least 1080p in VR and 4k in 5-ish. Then… just… wow. Can’t wait.
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1080p is half what a cheap monitor has now for pixels per MOA.
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IMO VR technology will 100% fit the flight simulation world in the next generation, probably within the next couple of years.
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I just tried the pixel density slider in DCS. Up to 1.5 my PC can handle it with no significant FPS impact and that already improves cockpit readability a lot.
When I push it to 2.5 (max), everything yet quite a bit better and more clear. Readability really is a lot less (to none) of an issue then. But FPS drop is too big, unplayable for me.All in all my PC (I7_3770+GTX970) is a bit too weak for DCS in VR. I can barely get above 60 FPS (that is even with pixel density at 1.5) which makes it quite flyable but at the cost of ingame detail and still in a solo mission.
If I add medium in-game detail I am around 45 FPS….
…which is even more away from the recommended 90 FPS experience.90 FPS is quite a number to reach for a flightsim even more so in stereo 3D rendering.
So it is flyable and stunning to show of. I cant see cockpit readibility being much of an issue. You can tweak that away with ingame quality settings.
But realizing steady optimum FPS is not so easy.Greets