Norway Theater - Lets do it!
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i think the 3d mountain should be intergrated as part of an airbase, like a feature item.
well this was just the first step just to get the model and area in 3ds max.
The next step is to set the exact correct height and cut the non needed polygons and this will leave just the mountain which will end as a feature to the airbase.
First before that there must be done a modification in the mountain base to create the tunnel of the taxiway and parking areas inside the mountain.Have in mind due to Falcon limitation the whole model will not have a hitbox or it will be above the ceiling of the taxiway. This means the aircraft will be able to pass through…
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it is a good idea and would be awesome to have done. i dont know much about this end of the work yet so i wont be involved in making it happen. this would go in Tonys db as a model right? he just mentioned the possibility but hes got alot on his plate right now so it may be a while before this is reality.
Ok no rush… I could do you the basic models u want and you can edit them alter them whenever u want. I can provide the 3dsmax files to u alongside terrain heightmap and texture.
I’m also heavy loaded with Ikaros. Just getting the area and making it a 3ds is pretty easy and quick. -
well are there any operational?
could u please point me to some exact locations?
u mean something like that:
Here is some detailed info: http://www.mil-airfields.de/se/list.htm#984623
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Here is some detailed info: http://www.mil-airfields.de/se/list.htm#984623
I’ve seen the first before…
Sorry but I have no time for research and filter hings out.
I can create easily the heightmap and basic 3d model.
If someone can locate such bases and where the underground taxi parking areas are I can go directly there and create those models.In my 9:55 post with the basic 3d model I started at 8:30 and it took me about an hour to search and locate that that specific airbase had underground areas… the rest 25 minutes was to create the model and upload the pics.
So i don’t afford to spend time on locating the areas. Sorry guys but my first priority is IKAROS. -
It’s great to hear you can model this mountain base idea in one hour…including interior texture-mapping?
Say, in this case mountain base can be modeled as one big single feature…all interior items included.
The whole Airbase objective just has one big mountain part, one runway, few taxiway sections, and few invisible hitbox-features at tunnel entrance(for attack aiming, once hit, the damage or destroyed feature is big rocks, to block ac movement)…sounds really cool to ramp start and taxi in tunnels.Then…ac needs some tweak to have foldable vertical stabilizer!
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Make it a Hanger……;)
demer
EDIT: Something wicked this way come’s…BaWaHaHaHaaaa!!!
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If someone can locate such bases and where the underground taxi parking areas are I can go directly there and create those models.
Lets see what we can come up with . . . I found all 5 of the 5 known built underground hangers in Sweden:
F8 Barkarby: Airfield
Coordinates: N592451 E0175252 (WGS84)
Elevation: 56’
Location Indicator: ESCI, ESKB
Airfield ID: F 8
Location of airfield
8 NM NW Stockholm
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
06/24: 2000 m x 40 m Asphalt
Installations
Underground hangar.F9 Göteborg: Säve Airfield
Coordinates: N574633 E0115214 (WGS84)
Elevation: 66’
Location Indicator: ESIC, ESGP
Airfield ID: F 9
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
01/19: 1925 m x 40 m Asphalt
04/22: 1700 m x 30 m Asphalt
Radio navigation
Data for the year 1990:
ILS19: 108.1 “GP”
L: 360 “OS”
Installations
Underground hangar, now museum.F13 Norrköping: Bråvalla Airfield
Coordinates: N583639 E0160613 (WGS84)
Elevation: 89’
Location Indicator: ESCK
Airfield ID: F 13
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
15/33: 2300 m x 38 m Asphalt
06/24: 1800 m x 40 m Asphalt
Radio navigation
Data for the year 1971:
NDB: 412 “LM”, 150°/3.0NM to fld
Radar
PAR (1971)
Installations
Underground hangar.F18 Tullinge: Airfield
Coordinates: N591050 E0175443 (WGS84)
Elevation: 177’
Location Indicator: ESCN
Airfield ID: F 18
Location of airfield
Southwest of Stockholm.
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
06/24: 2360 m x 40 m Asphalt/Concrete
15/33: 1800 m x 40 m Asphalt
Radar
PAR (1971)
Installations
Underground hangar.F16 Uppsala: Airfield
Ärna Flygplats
Coordinates: N595351 E0173520 (WGS84)
Elevation: 69 ft
Location Indicator: ESCM
Airfield ID: F 16
Location of airfield
5 km north of Uppsala city center.
Radio Communication
• Uppsala Tower 116.1, 121.5
In the 1990s:
Runways
• 03/21: 1930 m x 49 m Asphalt
• 08/26: 2000 m x 40 m Asphalt
Installations
Underground hangar.There was also a large tunnel built:
F40 Fällfors
Coordinates: N650627 E0204541 (WGS84)
Map: Google Maps
Elevation: 640’
Location Indicator: ESUF (1990)
Airfield ID: F 40
Location of airfield
2.5 km south-southwest of Fällfors.
Current use
Closed, used for car races.
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
16/34: 2000 m
14/32: 1000 m “Bana B”, north of main runway.
16/34: 1200 m “Bana C” on the (nearly) parallel taxiway, west of the main runway
16/34: 1100 m “Bana D”, Highway strip south-southeast of the airfield, see Fällfors Highway Strip
Installations
Simple layout: runway, taxiway, QRA areas (Framom) at each end; Three short strips / highway strips. Dispersal area about 4 km south of the airfield with paved parking pads and hangars along public roads. All installations of the airfield are stretching over a length of 11 km. Tunnels - length of 150 meters, 20 m wide and 5 m high - to hold 10 AJ-37 a/cThen I find in Finland an interesting thing for Finland:
Forssa: Highway Strip
Coordinates: N605106 E0233118 (WGS84)
The highway strip is located on road 2, about 5 km northwest of Forssa.
Runways
14/32: 2100 m
Installations
Prepared installation for an arrestor cable (this might be an interesting thing to try to work like a/c carrier?)Do you need anything else Arty?
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I will add here that - most of what what seemed to be planned for the underground shelters never materialized - the cost was pretty high. The alternative appears to be the dispersed airfields which took the form of the smaller runways that are integrated into the road networks with loops and hardstands . . . I think the hardened shelter concept for the part have now been shutdown in favor of the dispersed strategy. But, for older scenarios, these other underground hangers are quite valid and will make for a very interesting theater if we can manage to build them and integrate them in. The dispersed airbases also represent a very interesting aspect because here we need to ensure we can land and takeoff the aircraft in reasonable distance to make these smaller airstrips work. Reducing the quantity of the tradition Falcon big airbases in favor of these much smaller airstrips with a just a few a/c at each scattered across the country.
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Lets see what we can come up with . . . I found all 5 of the 5 known built underground hangers in Sweden:
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Do you need anything else Arty?
I had planned do a search this Sunday morning for these airbases. Tony beat me to it. I will ask at the FB Viggen page how ‘ATC’ would have worked. I know that also the AJS37, even being a '60’s era aircraft, did have navigational aids with waypoints so finding your way to an underground base - which wouldn’t be visually recognisable - was possible even in less good weather. For how they would manage that with older aircraft like the J32 I don’t know.
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Then I find in Finland an interesting thing for Finland:
Forssa: Highway Strip
Coordinates: N605106 E0233118 (WGS84)
The highway strip is located on road 2, about 5 km northwest of Forssa.
Runways
14/32: 2100 m
Installations
Prepared installation for an arrestor cable (this might be an interesting thing to try to work like a/c carrier?)There are several highway strips in Finland similar to Forssa (Jokioinen) and I guess in Sweden too, since these countries appear to have somewhat similar wartime infrastructures. You may find a map depicting the Finnish highway strips here.
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Lets see what we can come up with . . . I found all 5 of the 5 known built underground hangers in Sweden:
F8 Barkarby: Airfield
Coordinates: N592451 E0175252 (WGS84)
Elevation: 56’
Location Indicator: ESCI, ESKB
Airfield ID: F 8
Location of airfield
8 NM NW Stockholm
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
06/24: 2000 m x 40 m Asphalt
Installations
Underground hangar.F9 Göteborg: Säve Airfield
Coordinates: N574633 E0115214 (WGS84)
Elevation: 66’
Location Indicator: ESIC, ESGP
Airfield ID: F 9
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
01/19: 1925 m x 40 m Asphalt
04/22: 1700 m x 30 m Asphalt
Radio navigation
Data for the year 1990:
ILS19: 108.1 “GP”
L: 360 “OS”
Installations
Underground hangar, now museum.F13 Norrköping: Bråvalla Airfield
Coordinates: N583639 E0160613 (WGS84)
Elevation: 89’
Location Indicator: ESCK
Airfield ID: F 13
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
15/33: 2300 m x 38 m Asphalt
06/24: 1800 m x 40 m Asphalt
Radio navigation
Data for the year 1971:
NDB: 412 “LM”, 150°/3.0NM to fld
Radar
PAR (1971)
Installations
Underground hangar.F18 Tullinge: Airfield
Coordinates: N591050 E0175443 (WGS84)
Elevation: 177’
Location Indicator: ESCN
Airfield ID: F 18
Location of airfield
Southwest of Stockholm.
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
06/24: 2360 m x 40 m Asphalt/Concrete
15/33: 1800 m x 40 m Asphalt
Radar
PAR (1971)
Installations
Underground hangar.F16 Uppsala: Airfield
Ärna Flygplats
Coordinates: N595351 E0173520 (WGS84)
Elevation: 69 ft
Location Indicator: ESCM
Airfield ID: F 16
Location of airfield
5 km north of Uppsala city center.
Radio Communication
• Uppsala Tower 116.1, 121.5
In the 1990s:
Runways
• 03/21: 1930 m x 49 m Asphalt
• 08/26: 2000 m x 40 m Asphalt
Installations
Underground hangar.There was also a large tunnel built:
F40 Fällfors
Coordinates: N650627 E0204541 (WGS84)
Map: Google Maps
Elevation: 640’
Location Indicator: ESUF (1990)
Airfield ID: F 40
Location of airfield
2.5 km south-southwest of Fällfors.
Current use
Closed, used for car races.
Runways
Data for the year 1990:
16/34: 2000 m
14/32: 1000 m “Bana B”, north of main runway.
16/34: 1200 m “Bana C” on the (nearly) parallel taxiway, west of the main runway
16/34: 1100 m “Bana D”, Highway strip south-southeast of the airfield, see Fällfors Highway Strip
Installations
Simple layout: runway, taxiway, QRA areas (Framom) at each end; Three short strips / highway strips. Dispersal area about 4 km south of the airfield with paved parking pads and hangars along public roads. All installations of the airfield are stretching over a length of 11 km. Tunnels - length of 150 meters, 20 m wide and 5 m high - to hold 10 AJ-37 a/cThen I find in Finland an interesting thing for Finland:
Forssa: Highway Strip
Coordinates: N605106 E0233118 (WGS84)
The highway strip is located on road 2, about 5 km northwest of Forssa.
Runways
14/32: 2100 m
Installations
Prepared installation for an arrestor cable (this might be an interesting thing to try to work like a/c carrier?)Do you need anything else Arty?
Thanx downloaded all but the last two Forssa and F40 Fällfors.
Forssa seems like a lightweight aircraft thing.
Fallfors is not only 11km south but also 8+ klm to the northwest… So it’s a super huge area. I can do it but will need too much time and with the elevation variation will need extensive tryouts to level things with falcon terrain so to have airplanes traveling there.Finally if those are not operational why the need to do them? Fictional scenario?
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Finally if those are not operational why the need to do them? Fictional scenario?
Arty, the main reason is that Nordic isn’t necessarily present day - but database will span a long time period. I am considering adding even more older a/c. Right now we have a/c that reach into the 60’s, so having these airbases available for developing other campaigns is a really good thing - not to mention pushing the boundaries of Falcon a little bit more. So, they aren’t used in modern scenario, but if we want a 60/70’s scenario they could be. I hope I understood your question and was able to answer it.
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I know that also the AJS37, even being a '60’s era aircraft, did have navigational aids with waypoints so finding your way to an underground base - which wouldn’t be visually recognisable - was possible even in less good weather. For how they would manage that with older aircraft like the J32 I don’t know.
This is an educated guess but as a pilot, I can always determine my location with the use of two simple radio beacons. If I have a map and I know my location on a map as well as the map location of the underground base, and assuming I have flown familiarization flights around the base - finding the base even in somewhat bad weather, as long is it isn’t total zero visibility - shouldn’t prove too difficult to locate. I can remember several times flying VFR Rules in Georgia and having to go IFR coming back an using radio radials to help pointpoint my location, this is completely free of using a tower/approach control and radar assistance . . . once i was a couple of miles out I could almost always make out where I was and how to line up for final approach. Granted, flying slow moving propeller driven aircraft is a bit different from jets - but I would be willing to wager the Swedish and Finnish military pilots are a lot more experienced than I ever was as a pilot.
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In regards to the airbase conversation, bases like Forssa are wartime operational bases for the Finnish Air Force Hornets and Hawks. Don’t know about Sweden, but FAF operates many of these small highway squadron dispersement bases around the country.
Lähetetty minun Nexus 6P laitteesta Tapatalkilla
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Yeah, the road bases are used by fighter aircraft for the FAF, they often have underground munitions/fuel bunkers nearby in hillsides or underground, with the rest of the gear being moved there by truck. I think a few of them have straight up aircraft shelters nearby also. While the road strips aren’t massive, they are long enough to operate Hornets in an air to air configuration with no issues, and presumably the larger ones are big enough to allow takeoff with air to ground loads aswell.
Probably the biggest issue with ‘modelling’ these in Falcon is that they tend to operate only element or flight sized units in a dispersed fashion, which doesn’t really work with the existing logic for centralized operations from a large airbase.
Some fun videos;
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Probably the biggest issue with ‘modelling’ these in Falcon is that they tend to operate only element or flight sized units in a dispersed fashion, which doesn’t really work with the existing logic for centralized operations from a large airbase.
Create a squadron with 2 or 4 aircraft only in the DB and then use it as a squadron in your campaign. Have done that in the past for e.g. bomber detachments operating temporarily from abroad.
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Hmm, I suppose that might work. Would probably need to give them their own squadron stores config scaled to the aircraft number. Wonder if the automatic mission fragger would use them effectively if they were split up like that.
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For the highway strips in Sweden, these five could be used within the borders of the theater:
Vidsel
Aside from the bigger airbase, Vidsel had a dispersed base approx. 20 km. to the East.
Coordinates: N654915 E0203410 (WGS84)
Map: [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/Frits/Langtrsk_zpsvyde6hjf.jpg](Vidsel Aside from the bigger airbase, Vidsel had a dispersed base 20 km. to the East. Coordinates: N654915 E0203410 (WGS84) Map: Google Maps Location of airfield: 2.5 km east-southeast of Vidsel, on road 374. Runway13/31: 2100 m Långträsk Not much into: screenshot below shows the strip between the arrows (approx. 2km) [url) Fällfors Not much info: Coordinates: N650509 E0204652 (WGS84) Map: Google Maps Finnträsk Coordinates: N650450 E0210641 (WGS84) Map: Google Maps Location of airfield 3 k southeast of Finnträsk. Runway 14/32: 2200 m Info in Swedish (but translatable with Google translate: just put the link in): http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/siteassets/5-information-och-fakta/historia/vagbaserna/fortv_rapport_2006.1.pdf http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/siteassets/5-information-och-fakta/historia/vagbaserna/fortv-2007-1.pdf Antnäs Coordinates: N653232 E0214932 (WGS84) Map: Google Maps Location of airfield E4, southwest of Antnäs. Runways 05/23: 2000 m"]Google Maps
Location of airfield: 2.5 km east-southeast of Vidsel, on road 374.
Runway13/31: 2100 mAntnäs
Coordinates: N653232 E0214932 (WGS84)
Map: [Google Maps](Antnäs Coordinates: N653232 E0214932 (WGS84) Map: Google Maps Location of airfield E4, southwest of Antnäs. Runways 05/23: 2000 m)
Location of airfield: E4, southwest of Antnäs.
Runways 05/23: 2000 mLångträsk
Not much into: screenshot below shows the strip between the arrows (approx. 2km)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/Frits/Langtrsk_zpsvyde6hjf.jpgFällfors
Not much info:
Coordinates: N650509 E0204652 (WGS84)
Map: Google MapsFinnträsk
Coordinates: N650450 E0210641 (WGS84)
Map: Google Maps
Location of airfield: 3 km southeast of Finnträsk.
Runway 14/32: 2200 mInfo in Swedish about dispersed bases: (translatable with Google translate: just put the link in):
http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/siteassets/5-information-och-fakta/historia/vagbaserna/fortv_rapport_2006.1.pdf
http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/siteassets/5-information-och-fakta/historia/vagbaserna/fortv-2007-1.pdfEdit: as far as I can get info on mountain hangars, there were 6 built in total, all more or less in the central part of Sweden, outside the theater. So for historic/realistic reasons they unfortunately don’t fit in the current Nordic theater.
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So snail those five u posted can only be in theater. Right?
About the inside diagrams of the taxiway and parking areas? I’m talking about those inside the mountains only. Are they available somewhere - somehow?
Height of the ceiling?Would it be OK if I provide the hills and the entrance and u create the rest? Or u will need and the rest.
Finally I would suggest to select one (preferably small) for which u have adequate info of the internals to create that as a pilot model and see how it goes.
What do u say? -
Create a squadron with 2 or 4 aircraft only in the DB and then use it as a squadron in your campaign. Have done that in the past for e.g. bomber detachments operating temporarily from abroad.
I too have done this B4. Created them as “rouge” or “bandit” squads and they worked for the intended purpose i.e. Ambush. As far as the resupply or SSData, at the time and with the version I was using, it half worked.
Though I think with the current state of the code and DB in BMS it has a far better chance to be effective.regards,
demerBTW: I love the quote in your Sig……;)