Bullseye Calculator
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Hi All:
Sadly my trigonometry skills went to pot about 35 years ago. What I want to do is setup a tiny spreadsheet to be a bullseye calculator. So when I hear a bullseye call I can just type the call in, plus my own bullseye information and then get a good bearing and range to the contact. As you see here:
But I have no idea what formulas to put into cells B8 and C8. Any help would be much appreciated.
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When I was younger, I’ve tried that kind of stuff … and it is not valuable. The time you type it on your calculator … you’re dead.
It is just a mater of mental visualization. And if you can’t imagine it … just look at your HSI.
My present heading is 040°
I am the Green dot, posit : 160/20Nm
Enemy id the Red dot, posit : 220/30NmI take heading about 265° by the left and I will face the enemy.
It takes about 3 seconds to do this.
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Dee-Jay:
I appreciate that you are trying to help me and I can understand your diagram, but I cannot do what you did in 3 seconds. It would take me a minute or so especially while trying to get a good handle on the range. Quite frankly I have to admire someone that can set this up in their head with any accuracy.
On the other I can type four values into a spreadsheet that is already open and ready to go and get the range and bearing in say 5-8 seconds. Especially, if I arrange the sheet where it is (per your example):
220 [Enter]
30 [Enter]
160 [Enter]
30 [Enter]Wham, bam, no guestimating, I have a good range and bearing so long as the call was accurate. So please if anyone can help me with the trigonometry I would really appreciate it.
Also, this would help train my mind because I could make my in head calculation and then verify if I was right or not. Thanks again.
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Hello Vandal. This would require two calculations. The first would be a Law of Cosines solution using the interior angle subtended from the bearing of your ownship from bulls and the bearing of the bandit from bulls, along with the distances of each from bullseye. That will give you the distance between you and the bandit. Next, you would work out a Law of Sines solution to give the angle between you and the bandit. You would then do the math to figure the bearing from you to the bandit. A calculator program would do this fairly instantaneously. What I like to do is place the bullseye in a position where planned threats will be in the 0-180°call from bulls. I use the ruler in the UI to extend a line between 30 and 60 miles approx. due west of my target steerpoint. Then you can right-click and set the bulls at around the end of the ruler. Any calls coming from 180-359° will be at a much more manageable distance from me and possibly not interfering in my mission. After years of flying this sim using bearing and distance, I’ve recently began using bullseye calls. This has help me without having to do much math in my head while in the thick of things. This of course could be a completely wrong way of doing things but, oh well… I’m a seasoned Falconeer and set in my ways…
Quasi
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When I was younger, I’ve tried that kind of stuff … and it is not valuable. The time you type it on your calculator … you’re dead.
It is just a mater of mental visualization. And if you can’t imagine it … just look at your HSI.
My present heading is 040°
I am the Green dot, posit : 160/20Nm
Enemy id the Red dot, posit : 220/30NmI take heading about 265° by the left and I will face the enemy.
It takes about 3 seconds to do this.
This is the same i did back i days … to introduced same bullseye (referenced at one waypoint) … in DCS with only HSI available
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I appreciate that you are trying to help me and I can understand your diagram, but I cannot do what you did in 3 seconds.
Salt and butter for a combat pilot. Not that difficult if you make an effort (sure it needs a bit of training) … all you have to know by heart is the inter-cardinal values every 30°:
360 (N) / 030 / 060 / 090 (E) / 120 / 150 / 180 (S) / 210 / 240 / 270 (W) / 300 / 330
… the rest is a child’s play. (all you have to do is placing a dot. Then a second dot relative to the center.) … and this will not only help you for combat, but also for 2D orientation for navigation and also will help you for instruments flying. Rather than the Excel sheet, I would highly recommend you to have a bullseye printed on a paper sheet stuck on a side of your screen.
This will make you progress … calculator will makes you stagnate (or even regress). If you need help, the printed bullseye is the best help you can imagine. Trust Falcon4’s old monkeys
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“Salt and butter” - never heard that one “Bread and Butter” is the UK equivalent saying …
This is a great technique for getting an idea of location and if the bandit is a threat to you … I Like it.
I use a visual method on a tablet - will post picture in a little while.
Ironman
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/zo9kix3jgzqe2fq/20170202_154045.jpg?dl=0
So you can see the flight path and Bullseye - with a couple or ranges marked on to the tablet all done with a “white board marker pen” so you can wipe it off and remake for every mission - you should know where you are on your flight path, or you could look at your HSD as this now corresponds with the flight path you sketch on your tablet so a quick glance that the map should tell you where the bandit is in relation to Bullseye and you.
Bullseye is NOT an exact science even the call you get from AWACS rounds up the bearing and distance - you don’t need to know to the nearest mile or deg where he is, its more important you know if he is a threat to you - 12/3/9/6 o’clock to you. you can then formulate a plan from there - if you want to track him and find his intention see below.
If he is not a threat now but you want to track him just put a X on the tablet every time you get an up dated position for him and you can track his flight plan - its good to work out if he is on a BARCAP of just going home for tea and biscuits.
Any way that’s how I do it …
Sorry there are some other images on the link - just ignore them only image 1 is relevant to this post.
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Hello Vandal… You would then do the math to figure the bearing from you to the bandit… What I like to do is place the bullseye in a position where planned threats will be in the 0-180°call from bulls. Quasi
You wouldn’t happen to be able to write up the steps and formulas up for me (i.e. using Dee-Jay’s example where does contact’s bullseye bearing go in these)? Once I see where the numbers go I can convert that to a spreadsheet formula. And yeah I’ve done the same thing with the bullseye but I am hoping to get away from that crutch in anticipation of starting to do multiplayer.
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Salt and butter for a combat pilot. Not that difficult if you make an effort (sure it needs a bit of training) … all you have to know by heart is the inter-cardinal values every 30°:
360 (N) / 030 / 060 / 090 (E) / 120 / 150 / 180 (S) / 210 / 240 / 270 (W) / 300 / 330
… the rest is a child’s play. (all you have to do is placing a dot. Then a second dot relative to the center.) … and this will not only help you for combat, but also for 2D orientation for navigation and also will help you for instruments flying. Rather than the Excel sheet, I would highly recommend you to have a bullseye printed on a paper sheet stuck on a side of your screen.
http://i.imgur.com/P0YBfQO.png
This will make you progress … calculator will makes you stagnate (or even regress). If you need help, the printed bullseye is the best help you can imagine. Trust Falcon4’s old monkeys
Yeah I think that will be helpful! But let me just defend the use of computers for a moment. We rely here on computerized math, we wouldn’t be chatting online without out. We wouldn’t be playing a sim without it. Geez the F-16 Fighting Falcon itself relies on computerized math to the extreme (i.e. CCRP, CCIP, fly-by-wire, avionics and on and on and on). So I don’t think it’s a bad idea to rely on computerized math. But I am grateful for the coaching and blank bullseye, I think it will help but I still want my computerized math. I’ll wager $50 that I can punch in four numbers quicker than you can accurately plot two contacts and figure the bearing. He who gives the range and bearing first by voice wins, because you are doing it in your head I’ll even handicap you range by 5 nm and bearing by 5 degrees whereas I must get within .1 nm and .1 degrees. The only thing is I need the formula first to prove that I can beat you to the solution
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“Salt and butter” - never heard that one “Bread and Butter” is the UK equivalent saying …
UK … but you are not “Breton de France”. So maybe you don’t know the “Beurre salé” (Salt butter)
Et hop … une pirouette
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Et hop … une pirouette
And hop … a pirouette (hop and spin)
Another French saying - I assume ??
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Lol i was going to post the exact same !!
to save your bacon of courseUK … but you are not “Breton de France”. So maybe you don’t know the “Beurre salé” (Salt butter)
Et hop … une pirouette
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When I was younger, I’ve tried that kind of stuff … and it is not valuable. The time you type it on your calculator … you’re dead.
It is just a mater of mental visualization. And if you can’t imagine it … just look at your HSI.
My present heading is 040°
I am the Green dot, posit : 160/20Nm
Enemy id the Red dot, posit : 220/30NmI take heading about 265° by the left and I will face the enemy.
It takes about 3 seconds to do this.
Deejay,
There is a reason why you are a pilot… YOU ARE SMART!! Ha ha ha I am not… I’ve known how to calculate bullseye since the beginning of Falcon about 20 years ago and I still cannot do it in 3 seconds. More like 4 minutes! lol
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This may help also to explain my pictures …
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So maybe you don’t know the “Beurre salé” (Salt butter)
What?? Lol, here in the US, there is salted butter and unsalted butter. Is it the same there?
This reminds me of beans in the US. On the west coast when they cook beans, mostly pinto beans, it’s called “beans”, haha, but in Hillbilly country here in the Southeast(TN/VA/NC/GA area) it’s called “soup beans”!!! WTH is going on!!!
C9
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@Cloud:
What?? Lol, here in the US, there is salted butter and unsalted butter. Is it the same there?
Sure. We even have the 1/2 salt butter (“Demi-Sel” between unsalted and salted butter).
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TALK ABOUT GOING OFF TOPIC !!!
Vandal must think we all drink in the same pub !!!
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Vandal, you do what makes you happy(that’s what BMS is about), but I can see where DeeJay and others are coming from, too. When I started working with bullseye I wanted something I could learn to do" instinctively". I wanted to learn to visualize it. I found an old broken compass that had a degrees bezel on it, and taped it to the edge of my monitor. Then, I basically did DeeJays’ methodology. At first I kind of drove myself nuts trying for hyper accuracy, but then realized I didn’t need to be hyperaccurate. The funny thing is,after awhile I was able to visualize it, and the compass has been retired.
I think of it this way:I basically want 2 things from a bull call, in the A/A situation. I want to know if a bandit is in my general area. If so, and I want to engage it, then the second thing I need to know is where do I point my nose to put my radar cursors on it.
This visualization approach also gives me an enjoyable bit of immersion in the A/G situation. Say I’m at 180 for 10, heading 000,Weaseling . I see a SAM site at my 4 o’clock, looks like about 10 miles away. I can call to my wingman “attacking SAM, bull 165 for 15”. I bet I’ll at least be “close enough for virtual government work”.
However, that’s not what you asked for :). So, I dug this up in my notes. I never really worked with it, myself, but hope it helps…http://wildernessarena.com/environment/navigation/use-magnetic-compass-triangulation-to-calculate-distance-of-object -
I wrote a spreadsheet when I should have been working many years ago that would give you a random position and a random position for the contact, then plot it. The plot was on another sheet so I would visualise and see how close my visualisation was.
In terms of doing it in ones head…there is a reason the pilot selection examine has so much mental maths!