EXPANSION OF DEVELOPMENT BASE PERSONNEL THROUGH EDUCATION
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If you could get theater after theater modeled to the upcoming 4.xx spec by volunteers and all you had to do was have one liaison between the BMS team and the non-BMS contributors that could teach and supervise those efforts, why would you NOT do that and save yourself tons of time and help develop the exceptionally talented to become part of the BMS team? BMS doesn’t even charge for it’s product so what does BMS stand to lose? I just don’t understand why BMS would not want interns when they are champing at the bit to bring Falcon 5 BMS to life?
Developing talent by having volunteer experts teaching courses, supervising, and evaluating output and helping out when the student gets stuck seems like a way to continually be revitalizing the team and propelling the sim to the next level and get the quality control up. The volunteer experts wouldn’t even have to be part of the BMS team, but someone that BMS is willing to work with. All they need to do is talk to each other and the solution would start to work itself towards a solution.
I’ve played around with 3D modeling, vector graphics, and coding so I am confident I could produce a decent pit with some classes and someone to help me out when I get stuck. Now maybe the pits the team produces in the 1st iteration aren’t the best, but at least you get all the pits started and if you are lucky 1/4 of them turn out be damn good and able to go out in the next update. That just seems to make sense to me, unless all of this is already getting done in a timely manner?
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Hmmm coordination I hear… Spoon-fed I hear…
The team knows exactly and a link how to contribute.All right and wrong at the same time.
Let me explain .
Coordination: for it to happen first value is cooperation. I don’t see theater devs doing so in the extent for this to work. I bark like an old dog for years for this.
Spoon-fed: heap every mod theater development reinvented how many wheels and how many times exactly? Now picture your self how productive r u when u mastered the beast and think back how much time u lost and how many times u came close to contact with the I give up target?
Team points how to: when u ask someone to do something besides what he needs the tools and instructions. Not like: here is the ocean , now learn how to swim.
Sure in all previous there are some Sparks of hope.
What I would do?
A theater devs wiki if I had the time.
Now I spent enough time let me get back I have a bug in the bridge and some cities to build… Which as a behaviour is the initial cause and hardest to fight - drag a Dev out of his accustomed - usual routine and joy of creation and productivity.sent from my mi5 using Tapatalk
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Has everyone had their coffee yet? Good.
If you could get theater after theater modeled to the upcoming 4.xx spec …
Here is the word I have been looking for:
Most of the users do not know the limitations of the Falcon codewise, memory wise etc etc. That applies twice for making something work for a future version / iteration.
My suggestions broken down into steps would be something along the lines of:
TILE PIPELINE
1. Core team sets the specifications for the environment for the future release. How big each tile? Will textures be geo-referenced sat imaging or not? If “yes” what source will be used? We can’t have 5 different sources for this. What resolution for the textures? What color schemes for the seasons etc etc. All of this considerable work is only setting the standards for the next release.
Obviously, there are more than one ways to skin a cat. So I really do feel that brainstorming needs to take place. What would achieve better results? Is that method worth the extra effort? Will quality be prioritized above productivity? How about comparing methods and evaluating them for said requirements (quality, time to be produced etc). Could data be brought in from e.g. NASA worldwind? Are there other options to open source lanscapes? Would crews of other flight sims help (e.g. flightgear… terrain is terrain for any flight sim,… why make it twice)? Can the imported data be improved on? Can we have no two identical tiles other than on water bodies? Would modding existing work be a better or worse approach for what the specifications dictate? This is where I feel that as many as possible DIFFERENT ideas are needed. That said, the inherent limitations are the constraints and the people outside the core dev. team don’t know these. It would ultimately come down to a decision of the core dev team to explain the limitations AND THEN do the brainstorming among themselves AND the users or doing it by themselves.
2. Someone takes the time to do all of the above for JUST ONE TILE. But while doing it, he makes videos in which the average Joe that wants to contribute is educated to the process.
These are the tools we will be using.
This is how we use them
This is what we need to do and check before submitting (to reduce QC screening on the receiving end)3. The core dev. team spends its time checking, revising and hopefully helping people correct their mistakes so that productivity and quality is increased, sieving and incorporating the input into the sim. Progress is monitored in public by a color coded grid so that people working in this direction know what has and what hasn’t been done. This is crucial to prevent from overlapping work and wasted resources. Obviously the core dev team will eventually figure out which users are giving them EXACTLY what they want and that would allow them to designate them as “the go to” people in their absence freeing up yet even more time for them to live a life other than just develop the sim.
4. The whole thing is bug tested for seams, splits, overlaps etc. This could be done by the core dev. team or by yet more volunteers in a new pipeline.
The same setup with its own specifications, variations and demands can be used for buildings, billboards, powerlines, industries, switches, knobs, toggles, pits, airframes etc. Each one having its own pipeline.
The core dev team doesn’t need to spend time monitoring any stinking pipeline either. All they need to do is explain to one of us what needs to be done - from beginning to end - to get high quality tiles, buildings, whatever, allow for some resources and a dedicated corner on this server and that person will oversee the whole process. But there has to be scope to the whole thing. Not 1000 people all working on the same tile because its easy or whatever.
The main difference between a side-project working in this direction and one that the core. dev team trains, steers and monitors is size of workforce. In the side-projects you would have 1/10 or less of the people working on the project… But EVERYONE uses BMS! So you can expect a higher input and therefore levels of detail unattainable otherwise.
That would free up time for the core dev team to improve simulation specific aspects such as weapon integration, targeting/recce pods, mechanical failure simulation, etc. In the long run the core dev. team is still developing the simulator (how about seeing maintenance going on in hangers and outside of them when you start up? how about variations of ground crew walking, running or carrying things while you start-up? … an engine is being towed out to be replaced next to your hanger or your next package is getting fueled and loaded etc etc), but at the same time - after pipelines have been set-up and refined - it also takes upon it the policy decisions concerning feature integration while its army of volunteers churns out all the detail they would ever love to have… all the way down to 3D knurling on buttons / knobs / switches if they ever come down to that.
TRAIN THE MONKEYS!!! … Obviously I am an Arctic one so I wont need too much training, but I am sure there are fierce apes among us that will be kicking out some very good work once trained.
BTW, Thanks to everyone joining in on the conversation.
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The attitude that “I/we suffered so everyone else should too” is poor form and does nothing for anyone, except to maybe pump up someone’s ego that I can and you can’t…
This has got to be the most laughable sentence in this entire thread. Not only is is total rubbish, it proves my point about my statements.
I NEVER suffered by teaching myself, seeking the information needed by studying it years after years, learning a lot of it on my own. There have been a few others that helped me in the beginning but that was pretty short lived. I take pride in my accomplishments(you refer to that as ego…smh) as to what I’ve done on my own. I’ve never denied helping anyone, ever. And there are many members here who can verify that, but NO, I’m not going to sit here and give them everything they want time after time after time, when it’s readily available if they seek it. But then again, they would have to suffer to do that…LOL
Have you never heard the saying “God helps those that help themselves”. It doesn’t seem to exist any longer. The one’s that complain and whine, and you, think they are suffering if they have to learn or do anything on their own!! This is the phenomenon called “Entitlement” and its the age that most 25yr olds and under(and some older) seem to live in. Everything revolves around them.
“Mommy, they want me to do it by myself, they won’t do it for me, can you get my cell phone that you gave me when I was 3yrs old so I can call them and tell them that’s just not right. Oh, darn, it’s not charged. I could use one of the 2 other phones in the house, but one is a touch tone and that hurts my tender fingers and the other is a rotary phone and I’m scared to stick my fingers in them little holes for fear it will rip my finger off, plus I don’t even know how to dial that thing!!! Mommy, can you call them and tell them to tell me their secrets and if they don’t you’ll go over there and beat them up for me.”
With that said, there are some fine young people here that have the desire, drive and commitment to learn a lot of stuff by themselves, but they are few and far between compared to the “entitlement” crowd. And looking at your post, you seem to lean that way.
I could write a book about not only How much I’ve helped individuals and taught people and how many hours, days, months and years I’ve learned by myself, and how many times I’ve seen people whining about how no one will help them, or how THEY can’t find the information because it’s here, there, and everywhere, it’s not in a central depository, indexed and filed appropriately for them and that’s just to much pain and suffering for them to endure, this part would take more than half the book!!
Here’s my tip of the day. If you aren’t or you can’t be willing to have the ambition to learn on your own because that causes you to much pain and suffering, then, well, don’t Mod/Dev on Falcon. Get out of the “Afterburner” Period.
But of course, due to my “EGO”, oh and my “Poor form”, according to you, I’m a mean person and know the secrets and won’t give them out……LOL
It’s no wonder BMS and some other Dev teams have/run a tight closed shop. And I don’t blame them one bit for that, I actually applaud it.
Cheers,
C9
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Before this turns into a flame war - which is not the intended purpose of this thread - I wouldn’t mind reading your positions Cloud 9, on specifications, limitations and goals. Those can’t be set by the average Joe because they don’t know the technical aspect of what Falcon can handle. The same goes in some cases concerning methods to achieve the desired results.
I for one don’t want someone else to do things for me. I do however think that putting out training videos in which the example is set concerning HOW to achieve the desired results is a damn good idea. You might think its better for people to just start doing stuff in a million different ways … and then what? Try to stitch every non-uniform piece together? To produce what? The biggest collage ever used in a man-made machine?
I really would like to hear your view on centralized direction, goals etc. The difference between having that, and 1000 different opinions is the difference between direction and chaos. But that is just my opinion.
While I am at it, lets have a vote about a special Anniversary edition Falcon theater where the player takes-off and flies over an entire squad of playmates in high resolution, elevation map with REAL hills and valleys!.. Guess where the landing strips will be!
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It is not because he is not yet integrated into the team with a full access of the dev forum that wasn’t provided usefull info to some of the team members … and … one do not need to be team member to be usefull to the community. Anytime he comes on the ppl forum he provides some good info that might be good for the development.
100% …
I (we) am still waiting for someone to give love to the Tactical Reference.
Which part? As you said RWR will be removed. Rest of part is in the age of Internet is pointless. You anytimes can find more and better data about any aircraft in DB. The only good point of Tactref to check 3D model integration. If you scrweded strongly someting you get CTD in tacref without loading a mission.
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Before this turns into a flame war
That’s not my intentions Atreides. I’m simply responded to an accusation that is totally false.
At any rate. I’ll spend some time and respond to your questions later, as right now I’m a tad busy.
C9
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You anytimes can find more and better data about any aircraft in DB. The only good point of Tactref to check 3D model integration. If you scrweded strongly someting you get CTD in tacref without loading a mission.
Well sure Molni, you can find the info on the INET, but that’s not the point, it’s not like you want to be sitting in Falcon and alt tab out to check Wiki all the time.
TACREF is a Legacy and nostalgic part of Falcon which should be updated and preserved IMO.
And what do you mean by “scrweded strongly”?? Doesn’t make sense, please have Google translate it…LOL
C9
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@Cloud:
Well sure Molni, you can find the info on the INET, but that’s not the point, it’s not like you want to be sitting in Falcon and alt tab out to check Wiki all the time.
TACREF is a Legacy and nostalgic part of Falcon which should be updated and preserved IMO.
Correct.
Not asking ppl with specific knowledges to start that task, but anybody else with an Internet access, time, and wish to do something for the community … Listen … why not Atreides who seems to be in the desire to start something ?
More usefull than new tiles at this time, TacRef needs updates and will help ppl who are newbies in TE creation.
TacRef Editor is easy to understand … and if some explanations are needed, I can provide it.Lot of blah blah in this thread … no much moves …
I invite all the ppl reading this thread to join this one : https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?12201-COMMUNITY-PROJECT-LETS-UPDATE-TACTICAL-REFERENCE&highlight=Tacref
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@Cloud:
This has got to be the most laughable sentence in this entire thread. Not only is is total rubbish, it proves my point about my statements.
I NEVER suffered by teaching myself, seeking the information needed by studying it years after years, learning a lot of it on my own. There have been a few others that helped me in the beginning but that was pretty short lived. I take pride in my accomplishments(you refer to that as ego…smh) as to what I’ve done on my own. I’ve never denied helping anyone, ever. And there are many members here who can verify that, but NO, I’m not going to sit here and give them everything they want time after time after time, when it’s readily available if they seek it. But then again, they would have to suffer to do that…LOL
Have you never heard the saying “God helps those that help themselves”. It doesn’t seem to exist any longer. The one’s that complain and whine, and you, think they are suffering if they have to learn or do anything on their own!! This is the phenomenon called “Entitlement” and its the age that most 25yr olds and under(and some older) seem to live in. Everything revolves around them.
“Mommy, they want me to do it by myself, they won’t do it for me, can you get my cell phone that you gave me when I was 3yrs old so I can call them and tell them that’s just not right. Oh, darn, it’s not charged. I could use one of the 2 other phones in the house, but one is a touch tone and that hurts my tender fingers and the other is a rotary phone and I’m scared to stick my fingers in them little holes for fear it will rip my finger off, plus I don’t even know how to dial that thing!!! Mommy, can you call them and tell them to tell me their secrets and if they don’t you’ll go over there and beat them up for me.”
With that said, there are some fine young people here that have the desire, drive and commitment to learn a lot of stuff by themselves, but they are few and far between compared to the “entitlement” crowd. And looking at your post, you seem to lean that way.
I could write a book about not only How much I’ve helped individuals and taught people and how many hours, days, months and years I’ve learned by myself, and how many times I’ve seen people whining about how no one will help them, or how THEY can’t find the information because it’s here, there, and everywhere, it’s not in a central depository, indexed and filed appropriately for them and that’s just to much pain and suffering for them to endure, this part would take more than half the book!!
Here’s my tip of the day. If you aren’t or you can’t be willing to have the ambition to learn on your own because that causes you to much pain and suffering, then, well, don’t Mod/Dev on Falcon. Get out of the “Afterburner” Period.
But of course, due to my “EGO”, oh and my “Poor form”, according to you, I’m a mean person and know the secrets and won’t give them out……LOL
It’s no wonder BMS and some other Dev teams have/run a tight closed shop. And I don’t blame them one bit for that, I actually applaud it.
Cheers,
C9
I was going to sit this thread out, but what the heck, I haven’t gotten in trouble for awhile…I frankly find the attitude portrayed in this post troubling, not to mention insulting. Yes, there are people who demand “entitlement”. And yes, there are also those who" want everything done for them". What I find troubling, though, is how how much area you_seem_ to want to cover with that “blanket”. Atreides doesn’t sound like an “entitlement-seeker”, and I know I and a LOT of us here aren’t, either.
Someone wrote here about a sense of community. It is true here, whether the Devs want it or not. There are those of us who strongly want to “give back”. We just don’t know how. It takes a certain knowledge “how to find out how”. You have to have a certain knowledge base to even be able to ask how to help. I don’t have that base, but I know the Devs do, and if I’m reading Atreides right, that’s all he’s asking for.
May I suggest you start a new Forum thread where you post areas we could help with . A simple “Mission Statement”. -
Correct.
Not asking ppl with specific knowledges to start that task, but anybody else with an Internet access, time, and wish to do something for the community … Listen … why not Atreides who seems to be in the desire to start something ?
More usefull than new tiles at this time, TacRef needs updates and will help ppl who are newbies in TE creation.
TacRef Editor is easy to understand … and if some explanations are needed, I can provide it.Lot of blah blah in this thread … no much moves …
I invite all the ppl reading this thread to join this one : https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?12201-COMMUNITY-PROJECT-LETS-UPDATE-TACTICAL-REFERENCE&highlight=Tacref
Thanks for the endorsement Dee-Jay, but I am not code / network savvy enough to undertake what you are suggesting. 3D and 2D graphics is closer to home for me. Plus…
The simulation and visuals amount for the largest part of the user experience. I think that in terms of simulation Falcon is very much mature - I am not saying its finished… Just that its mature.
However, once you look outside your cockpit or switch to an external view, with the exception of airplane models, (some at least), bodies of water and the sky/weather in most cases (not all), the environment is characterized by me as a terrain that is both repetitive in its tiling and in some cases lacks variation and more man-made objects. The skyline is also too “edgy” for my taste, characterized by straight lines of the large tiles that fail to give the impression of a simulated world.
The above said, I do recognize that more than just one person has sweated over all the terrain I am complaining about and have invested countless hours refining it, trying to give me today something better than what was available to me yesterday… for free. I do appreciate the work of the people who designed the terrain, when I compare it to previous versions of Falcon. My problem exists solely with what we could be doing with today’s hardware if some fore-thought, organization and volunteering was possible.
I suspect that the dev team - or at least part of it - are busy modeling block 60 and 70 for the next version of Falcon. I don’t know what they think of my ideas/suggestions anyway. If hits could be indicative of something, it would mean that its not just me that either likes the idea of pipelines or is interested/intrigued by them.
Thanks for making the suggestion though… and Nice Try! …You sly Dee-Jay You!
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Atreides doesn’t sound like an “entitlement-seeker”.
If you would have read the previous posts you will see I said to Atreides that I was NOT talking to or about him and apologized if he had thought that.
I also stated there are some talented and driven individuals that aren’t what I was describing if you hadn’t noticed that in my post.
Thank You,
C9
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@Cloud:
If you would have read the previous posts you will see I said to Atreides that I was NOT talking to or about him and apologized if he had thought that.
I also stated there are some talented and driven individuals that aren’t what I was describing if you hadn’t noticed that in my post.
Thank You,
C9
I have not forgotten that you said you would share your thoughts on limitations, goals and methods. The key elements that are beyond the average Joe’s capabilities. :drink:
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@Cloud:
Well sure Molni, you can find the info on the INET, but that’s not the point, it’s not like you want to be sitting in Falcon and alt tab out to check Wiki all the time.
TACREF is a Legacy and nostalgic part of Falcon which should be updated and preserved IMO.
And what do you mean by “scrweded strongly”?? Doesn’t make sense, please have Google translate it…LOL
C9
Tacref surface is simply outdated to give detailed and useful information. Oh, and BTW you cannot acces during flight. If anyting what you wish to put into Tacref can be puf in a pdf which anytime can be see in printed form or even using alt+tab.
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Tacref surface is simply outdated to give detailed and useful information. Oh, and BTW you cannot acces during flight. If anyting what you wish to put into Tacref can be puf in a pdf which anytime can be see in printed form or even using alt+tab.
But you’re missing the point Molni!!!
C9
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Tacref surface is simply outdated to give detailed and useful information. Oh, and BTW you cannot acces during flight. If anyting what you wish to put into Tacref can be puf in a pdf which anytime can be see in printed form or even using alt+tab.
So you suggest to supress the TarRef entirely (?) no point to keep it alive if unused and out to date.
Thanks for the endorsement Dee-Jay, but I am not code / network savvy enough to undertake what you are suggesting.
Thanks for making the suggestion though… and Nice Try! …You sly Dee-Jay You!
It is not about code … It is just text. Nothing is easier. But it takes time.
About 3d … C-17 and UH-1 needs love. If you are 3D artist, ask Waveydave, Radium, Eghi, Hayab or Pumpyhead for requirements.
I suspect that the dev team - or at least part of it - are busy modeling block 60 and 70 for the next version of Falcon.
… And you might be disappointed. Blk60 is out of BMS scope for the moment unless you can provide valuable (unclassified) documentations.
About tiles … etc … I suggest to wait a bit more. If/when needed, some ppl like Lazystonei or I-Hawk will maybe contact you.
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This post is deleted! -
So you suggest to supress the TarRef entirely (?) no point to keep it alive if unused and out to date.
Im not sure how useful a tool it is. Certainly in its current state. I look at it and often wonder how accurate it is to BMS.
“oh hey, says the range for this weapon is XXX”
sees the range marker for PPTs is waaaaay larger
“hmmmm……”
If it was modified to have accurate, interesting and useful information, would it become a useful tool? I would think its best purpose would be to codify the ‘falcon reality’, to explain how things work in the sim (as there is always a difference).
Of course, it would still be more useful in PDF form. Printable and searchable. TacRef is neither of those at the moment. Perhaps code changes would improve it, but might those changes also make any current planned TacRef changes invalid? It would suck if a small scale version of what happened to EMF be repeated.
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I think the TACRef would be better as a .pdf document, personally. Particularly if it would save overhead in the sim.
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- Thank you Atreides for the link to a really great song!
I think your ideas are spot on and it’s abit painful to read thrue this thread.
I also think the Tacref could use some attention but then with info and performance from/referencing the sim itself.
I started a project of learning how to model in 3dsmax from zero and built an AJS 35F. Obviously I don’t have the skill to be making aircrafts, but with some coordination and structure I would have produced a lot of forgotten/neglected 3d’s and done them a lot better then what is now in the DB.
Scale, units, linking, ptypes, lights, lodeditor, smoothing etc. is all there probably but so scattered and uncertain that it just halts any effort.
I agree with some of the sayings about spoonfeeding and enjoy the mystery that makes out devFalcon, but if result is on the agenda coordination and structure cant be counterproductive.
Falcon Love!
Cheers!
/Jaws