CH Users, Success with Air-Air Refueling
-
Yes, no special curves set up on my CH Fighterstick and I have no problem with AR (straight and level). Turns are another matter but that’s probably just me.
-
Yes, no special curves set up on my CH Fighterstick and I have no problem with AR (straight and level). Turns are another matter but that’s probably just me.
The “Zen” of AR
“Curves” are actually OK to customize the overall controller feedback or sensation. But I wouldn’t recommend the use of dead zones for precision flying (AR) in BMS. IMO, dead zones in the controller settings for AR flying in BMS simply delays the learning process. Precision flying in the more advanced flight sims require repeated tiny controller movements measured in say 2 to 3 mm increments (measured at the tallest point of the stick/throttle). Dead zones would require larger controller inputs for those very small changes in flight path and speed.
The AR disconnects most often occur while the tanker is in the process of banking to establish the new turn. Once the banking stops and the turn rate is established, staying connected is very similar to flying straight and level albeit with a banked horizon. Of course, the tanker has to eventually roll the opposite direction to return to flying straight and level giving the Viper driver a second challenge to staying connected!
Mastering banked AR is the same as mastering straight and level AR. It will require much practice to sensitize oneself to automatic tiny controller inputs with the hands based on what your eyes see on the monitor until the whole process of AR becomes 2nd nature. BTW, this same concept applies to “flying the needles” when performing blinded ILS landings (lots of practice until it’s automatic). For some real fun and good practice, set up a TE where the tanker flies a zigzag slalom pattern.
f1
-
You add a curve to your stick, you just want to make sure you are prepared for your nice curve F of X to react in game as being F of G of X…
There is already a curve on the sim, so if you apply a curve to your stick, you will get a compound curve when flying BMS.
-
I just tried 1 tick down on gain and 1 tick up on dead zone for both X and Y axis and for the first time nailed AAR. Hopefully that little bit of change won’t mess the rest of the game up, but I am really pleased with the result so far.
-
No problem with the Combatstick here. But I flew (and refueled) with an old T-Flight HOTAS X before getting the Combatstick, so I guess any new HOTAS would have felt wonderfully precise anyway.
More seriously, CH sticks are fine for AAR in BMS.
Like many things in life, it actually needs easing off rather than tension. -
someone once said " the poetry of a man’s words reveals the path he has walked"
but you knew that.
-
someone once said " the poetry of a man’s words reveals the path he has walked"
(…)
True, like in Robert Frost’s, “The Road Not Taken”: “I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference” …
-
Having my issues with AAR like all new pilots. Not using any deadzone, but was curious about what saturation does? My understanding is the zero saturation means whatever level you move the stick is how far it moves, while saturation levels mean if you move the stick 1%, you may get a 2% move. Is that correct? Does anyone use saturation levels and if so, what? Obviously I’m looking for as much precision as possible. Thanks!
-
Having my issues with AAR like all new pilots. Not using any deadzone, but was curious about what saturation does? My understanding is the zero saturation means whatever level you move the stick is how far it moves, while saturation levels mean if you move the stick 1%, you may get a 2% move. Is that correct? Does anyone use saturation levels and if so, what? Obviously I’m looking for as much precision as possible. Thanks!
Close, but not quite. Saturation applies only at the extremes of the throws. As an example, say 100 percent throttle movement sometimes gives you 99, sometimes 98, sometimes 100 percent in-sim; by adding a bit of saturation you’ll always get 100 percent. It’s like a null zone but helps take up the slack.
This is of course only my interpretation, and might not be completely accurate
-
So if I read you correctly, this would have little if any impact on precise movements required for AAR, right?
-
So if I read you correctly, this would have little if any impact on precise movements required for AAR, right?
Yep, afraid so.
-
Ch sticks are not so good anymore , 8bit resolution, so you get 256 points per axis … not so analog
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I have more problem with the throttle than the stick. It’s very hard to maintain 300 knots.
Funny thing is I have no problem with DCS AAR (F15C , SU33 ) after many attempts and many successes.
Do you all have some kind of curves on throttle? Or just some kind of advice… :rolleyes:
-
Hello beppe,
there are many threads to be found here with good advice on AAR and not necessarily limited to your hardware.
First of all, relax, wiggle your toes, hum a tune (like the old “Elite” docking computer on the Amiga did :D) to yourself and take it easy.
- Turn off the HUD to avoid fixating on the airspeed, work from the “tanker picture” only.
- Try to get pre-contact a couple of times in a row before attempting a top-up
- Turn off any head-tracking for your first attempts if applicable
- Start practising with the K(D)C-10, I find it easier to refuel from than the KC-135
- see-saw the throttle with a short frequency (I had to do that when using a stock Cougar which also only has 256 throttle positions over the entire range)
- Study the following threads:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?21368-refueling-tips-anyone
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?22968-A-A-Refueling
- Take it easy & RELAX, dammit It took me over 10 hours of practise before my first “wet contact”, YMMV of course but as I consider myself an average pilot at best I guess that is a good ball park figure near the top of the bell curve.
HTH & good luck, Sir!
Uwe
-
I have more problem with the throttle than the stick. It’s very hard to maintain 300 knots.
well, you are going to need to adjust the throttle to maintain 300 knots. There isnt any helper forces to make you stay at 300 knots, so it becomes a case of balancing two forces - thrust against drag. Drag increases through a complex curve, but generally increases with increasing airspeed, generally significantly so. Thrust is primarily proportional to throttle position (some simplification is going into that statement). With unbalanced forces, you will end up accelerating away from your current position - but this will change your velocity, and in turn change your drag, which can help by damping the acceleration effect, or hinder by exacerbating it.
The key thing is small adjustments having the capacity for large change. You should be able to perceive small changes in aircraft acceleration relative to the tanker, and use throttle to correct those changes, then make other changes to correct the now incorrect position. It isnt about reading the numbers, because a 1 quarter knot speed difference wont show on the tape, but it will still give you a drift.
This is core concepts of flying formation. Two key areas that might need improvement. Either the stick itself, if its not set up correctly or damaged, or simply not of appropriate quality - and the organic stick actuator, which might need some upgrading or training.
-
there are many threads to be found here with good advice on AAR and not necessarily limited to your hardware.
Yeah I know , i’ve only asked about the hardware side of the thing… for sure I need more training , no doubt about it
-
coming from a low res to a high res should give you adjustment problems of too much sensitivity. but ive read about people adding rubber bumpers and bands to the CH kit to add a bit of friction near the middle.
-
Fixed my problem. Bought a Warthog and easy, peasy now.
-
someone once said " the poetry of a man’s words reveals the path he has walked"
but you knew that.
how about a little mod: " the poetry of a man’s words reveals the path she has walked" ?
-
How about taking it further: the poetry of one’s words reveals the path they have walked