Hornet C flight data question
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Good Day, All,
Would anyone happen to know the corner velocity of the Bug C ? From what I’ve found, it seems 330-350 knots.
Also, I’m working on improving my rudder skills. Does anyone know where a good tutorial is? -
…first thing to know about using your rudders is that you have to use your rudders. Which seems to be something generally overlooked and unacceptable to Viper drivers.
Just experiment - in general, experiment during loops and overhead maneuvering. And spend a lot of time learning to fly SLOW…that’ll teach ya.
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…first thing to know about using your rudders is that you have to use your rudders. Which seems to be something generally overlooked and unacceptable to Viper drivers.
Just experiment - in general, experiment during loops and overhead maneuvering. And spend a lot of time learning to fly SLOW…that’ll teach ya.
Thanks, Stevie. I found this- http://www.empire-aviation.com/flight-instructors/john-e-mclain/understanding-the-use-of-rudder.html
My own experimenting started with aiding control in climb out from launch while turning to next waypoint. The main goal is control rate of climb in the bank. I’ve also experimented with rudder during a SAM-break turn. For example, breaking left with and without left rudder.
As for corner velocity, I’ve been experimenting between 300-400 knots. To be honest I remain unsure what difference I’m “feeling”, or how it’s modeled in BMS -
Real corner speed is from 290-320 kts, dunno in BMS today
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Thanks, Stevie. I found this- http://www.empire-aviation.com/flight-instructors/john-e-mclain/understanding-the-use-of-rudder.html
My own experimenting started with aiding control in climb out from launch while turning to next waypoint. The main goal is control rate of climb in the bank. I’ve also experimented with rudder during a SAM-break turn. For example, breaking left with and without left rudder.
As for corner velocity, I’ve been experimenting between 300-400 knots. To be honest I remain unsure what difference I’m “feeling”, or how it’s modeled in BMSYou can control climb with roll/pull/throttle - 1) throttle back; 2) increase bank; or 3) lighten your pull. It’s a balancing act I myself am still trying to figure out - mainly in the landing pattern…I’m fine up and away or during a fight, but I nearly always balloon my brake turn for some reason.
In a fighter, rudder isn’t so much about “preventing yaw” as it is about the ability to point your nose - “inflict” or input yaw. And as I continue to stress, this ability is at it’s most advantageous at low speed. It’s what makes for the Hornet’s ability to pirouette - that, and it’s total lack of an AOA limiter…
You’ll also find (or you should find…) yourself using top rudder during a realistic Navy brake turn - again, to stop the spiral into the ground by keeping your nose on the horizon (in this sense you’re actually generating lift with the fuselage because the yaw component becomes an “AOA” wrt the ground). If you study some vids of real Hornets in the brake you’ll see they’re adversely yawed during the turn…this is from application of top rudder, and that’s standard Navy airmanship. What really needs to be studied is how to balance bank and pull - and that in real cockpit geometry one can find this a bit more difficult to do with a center stick than with a side stick - I know I do, in going back and forth…I’ve come to prefer the side stick, actually. Next is how and when to stomp in rudder to make the jet dance…or bring guns/weapons to bear in the short-game.
But at the bottom line, I’m with you - I have no trust or faith in anything being modeled “correctly” in BMS except the F-16…and even there I have a few nagging questions, the more I study detail. But that’s not going to stop me from building my cockpit. Keep flight testing and let us know how BMS Hornets actually behave…
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Thanks, Stevie. I found this- http://www.empire-aviation.com/flight-instructors/john-e-mclain/understanding-the-use-of-rudder.html
My own experimenting started with aiding control in climb out from launch while turning to next waypoint. The main goal is control rate of climb in the bank. I’ve also experimented with rudder during a SAM-break turn. For example, breaking left with and without left rudder.
As for corner velocity, I’ve been experimenting between 300-400 knots. To be honest I remain unsure what difference I’m “feeling”, or how it’s modeled in BMSI guess the article talk about coordination turn, mainly used on propellers…
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Corner airspeed in a legacy A++/C/D is around 300-330 config dependant. HOWEVER, bleed rate at corner with anything other than 2/2/G load is eyewatering as well, so you got that going for you(50+ kts/sec), so I wouldn’t hit the merge with less than 380 and more like 420 if your fighting MiG-29 or Su-27 series. Remember even in full grunt those little 404s are not putting out anything near what the Ruskie motors are so NRG management is key to fighting a Hornet effectively. That and the slow under corner NRG addition is less than stellar, but you get great high alpha manueverability. Better tp gp for a quick kill than stay in a protracted turning fight because dumping the nose will mean giving exclusive use turning room to your dance partner.
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it is about the ability to point your nose - “inflict” or input yaw.
Precisely. It is the nose pointing and the “balancing act” that’s interesting to me, in several flight regimes.
Yes, on climb out I am considerably smoother with roll and pull. When I bring rudder practice into it, it’s tough to be smooth. It’s almost like my rudder is too sensitive in the 275-325kt range.
Tonight I flew a SEAD Strike and ran into a Hornet’s Nest (pun intended) of SA-4/6/10.I had defended myself to about 5k and 250 kt. and had a SA-4 coming in. I went to notch it, and while in the turn I gave it hard bottom rudder. I don’t know if the resulting maneuver was pretty enough to be a “pirouette”( I almost flew into the water), but the Ganef did miss.
I also agree with rudder in the landing break turn. Once again, it’s as if the rudder is “too sensitive” to do it smoothly.
So, basically, using rudder reminds me a lot of when I practiced AAR. My “touch” just isn’t there. Yet -
Corner airspeed in a legacy A++/C/D is around 300-330 config dependant. HOWEVER, bleed rate at corner with anything other than 2/2/G load is eyewatering as well, so you got that going for you(50+ kts/sec), so I wouldn’t hit the merge with less than 380 and more like 420 if your fighting MiG-29 or Su-27 series. Remember even in full grunt those little 404s are not putting out anything near what the Ruskie motors are so NRG management is key to fighting a Hornet effectively. That and the slow under corner NRG addition is less than stellar, but you get great high alpha manueverability. Better tp gp for a quick kill than stay in a protracted turning fight because dumping the nose will mean giving exclusive use turning room to your dance partner.
Thanks, Yeti. One thing , though. What is NRG ? It kinda sounds like you’re describing Energy Management
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Thanks, Yeti. One thing , though. What is NRG ? It kinda sounds like you’re describing Energy Management
N-eR-G …. Energy.
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Precisely. It is the nose pointing and the “balancing act” that’s interesting to me, in several flight regimes.
Yes, on climb out I am considerably smoother with roll and pull. When I bring rudder practice into it, it’s tough to be smooth. It’s almost like my rudder is too sensitive in the 275-325kt range.
Tonight I flew a SEAD Strike and ran into a Hornet’s Nest (pun intended) of SA-4/6/10.I had defended myself to about 5k and 250 kt. and had a SA-4 coming in. I went to notch it, and while in the turn I gave it hard bottom rudder. I don’t know if the resulting maneuver was pretty enough to be a “pirouette”( I almost flew into the water), but the Ganef did miss.
I also agree with rudder in the landing break turn. Once again, it’s as if the rudder is “too sensitive” to do it smoothly.
So, basically, using rudder reminds me a lot of when I practiced AAR. My “touch” just isn’t there. YetSounds like you’re getting there - Hornet rudders are very effective - there is a combination of touch and the calibration of your pedals to be developed here. The cal that works for the F-16 may not be appropriate for the BMS Hornet model. But you’ll get it figured out, I’m sure.