Saitek X65
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Hello.
I didn’t want to open up a new thread on the x65f as this thread seems suitable for me.
I am thinking about purchasing a x65f force sensing stick. As I am just used to fly in BMS with a traditional stick, I was wondering if it is worth to migrate from a tradtional stick to a force sensing stick. Yesterday I was flying in an f16 simulator in Frankfurt, Germany. It was more a “fun” simulator the guys told me there, as most of the cockpit was not functional. But they had a force sensing stick applied to to the cockpit. I found it hard but also interesting and challenging to fly with a force sensing stick . But more importantly. The last post in this thread is from 2014. Does anybody know if the x65f is still working with Windows10 and BMS 4.34 ? I can get a pre owned one for $350 (290 EUR) on ebay. Good deal? What do you guys think. -
I have it, and it works with Windows 10 and BMS4.33U5. I switched to the X65F from an X45, which is a traditional HOTAS. In the beginning, it felt somewhat tough to fly with it, but once I got used to it, it started to make sense and to feel comfortable. In my opinion, the X65F should be fastened to one’s table if possible. This way the force sensitivity of the HOTAS may be lowered (i.e. more force required for the same amount of aircraft control surface deflection), which in turn lets one to make only slight control surface adjustments, making flying more precise and accurate.
I’m not sure about the price, as the HOTAS isn’t being manufactured anymore, and second-hand specimen seem to appear rather rarely - depending on the location of course. I would estimate that price to be roughly on the ballpark if the HOTAS is in good condition.
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definitely screw it down !!! and I use F1 which is responsive enough for me - F4 is way too twitchy even in a dog fight !!!
and as previously stated, if its in good condition the second hand price is about right.
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they are great, but the thing is, they don’t give to 10’ like a real viper stick, so if you are doing it for realism, well, the block 3 had those, and the pilots all told GD they were bad, and that was the end of the fixed stick. now they all move a bit. they are great tech tho, really really cool…the only bummer is the throttle assembly has the same EMF and shielding problems as the x56 and the x55, so you’ll most likely get ghost and false inputs from time to time.
There is a spanish fellow who makes cougars into force feedback, but I can’t seem to find him. I’ve seen it on this forum.
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Thanks for the quick replies. And yes, I aim for realism with the x65f fixed stick. I found it kinda interesting flying with that fixed stick yesterday in that simulator. But what you’re saying is that only the Block 3 had those fixed sticks? Which then means in the real world there are not many or even no more F16 with a fixed stick in service? If so, what would be the most realistic HOTAS for BMS in concerns of range of movement then?
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now they all move a bit.
Thereisnotime is right, they are al force sensing, the first sticks had no movement at all, so pilots did not like the (no) feeling. The sticks all got a little movement like mentioned above. So go for force sensing for realism[emoji16]
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there is some logic in putting a very heavy spring and a very light touch, maybe even an inverse curve so that the stick is extremly sensitive to hair trigger. my stick is 16000 inputs high fidelity, and I use a x56, with the red spring. It moves.
the real stick deflects to 10’ in every direction. There is nothing truly out there as such, and when you start making consolations, the ch doesn’t have a paddle switch, the t16000m doesn’t have enough hats, the x-55 and x56 saitek have EMF problems, the x65 has emf problems and is locked at 0 centered, the virpils are from space…
I went with the x56 because of a profile that was up here by trulycertain, it has three overlay modes, one for ramp starting, one for VTOL and takeoff and test, and the other for fence in and combat. I bought everything, and tried everything, I didn’t like the warthog, I have a metal allergy and the skin on my hand was always itchy and red, plus not enough on the throttle and no mode selectors.
For me, the big deal is not realism but versatility because I fly a number of sims and aircraft within them, I wanted a hands on throttle that could map a number of complex systems and controls with no key file mapping. the ch was promising but it simply returns like shit, and uses a plastic gimbal, I tried to work with it but It bounds and bounces through the return. the t16000m is great…for a video game, it has space sim written all over it, not enough hats on the stick for tms and dms management, plus it suffers from the one POV hat DX limit in falcon GUI.
I substitue realism for ease of use. good luck, the market is…how I would put it, polarizing… i haven’t had the need to try the gladiator or the vrpil kits
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the real stick deflects to 10’ in every direction.
Thats an interesting claim… 10 feet of movement. I dont suppose you have some evidence to back up that claim?
I understand the few builders on viperpits who have used a real SSC havent had that experience with theirs.
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Thats an interesting claim… 10 feet of movement. I dont suppose you have some evidence to back up that claim?
I understand the few builders on viperpits who have used a real SSC havent had that experience with theirs.
Mmmh, 10 feet? I thought it meant 10 minutes as in degrees, minutes, seconds. In fact I don’t think that’s to far of……
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Well, if he meant 1/6th of a degree, thats much more reasonable.
Its also about the give in the X-65F if you apply prototypical force levels, although I should note that the stick even with minimum sensitivity is still not intended for that level of force.
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that’s degrees sorry I didn’t want to bust out key generator to get the proper demarcation sir, yes sir. lol. I wish i could find that spanish guys website on here again, when i was asking about this stuff or searching it can’t remember he was making custom parts for existing stick conversions.
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Well, thanks for all the opinions guys. I purchased the X65. I think I just have to try if it works for me. As reverting to a traditional stick is always possible.
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Well, thanks for all the opinions guys. I purchased the X65. I think I just have to try if it works for me. As reverting to a traditional stick is always possible.
Where did you find it?
Cannot find anywhere… nor new nor used -
Used of course. It is discontinued since 2013. There is one on EBay from the russian federation. But I found it in the german “ebay kleinanzeigen” maybe thats like craig list in the US?!
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that’s degrees sorry I didn’t want to bust out key generator to get the proper demarcation sir, yes sir. lol. I wish i could find that spanish guys website on here again, when i was asking about this stuff or searching it can’t remember he was making custom parts for existing stick conversions.
10° is a lot… thats 1/9th of the way to horizontal. Needless to say, the X-65F, the FCC-3 and I believe the FSSB all do not deflect this much.
FCC-3 has a very small deflection, similar to the X-65F. You could ask RD perhaps, I believe his pit uses a real SSC from an early block?
EDIT: Oh and if you hold Alt and then type quickly 0176 it generates the ° symbol. Useful one to know around here, degrees seems to come up very often.
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That means the X65F was the only commercially produced force sensing stick on the market? Wow. The FCC-3 and FSSB had to be built or better “modded” from Cougar or Warthog HOTAS Sticks, right? I feel honored now that I purchased one of the rare X65F sticks
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That means the X65F was the only commercially produced force sensing stick on the market? Wow. The FCC-3 and FSSB had to be built or better “modded” from Cougar or Warthog HOTAS Sticks, right? I feel honored now that I purchased one of the rare X65F sticks
Only one I know of. Im glad I upgraded away from my X-65F, but it was a stick Im still glad to own.
I think personally it could have been much more popular if not for some of the design flaws it came with.
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you’ll want to either upgrade eventually to an logitech x56 throttle quadrant, or hope to the gods that you get a good one and it doesn’t bleed EM like most of the x55 and x56 assemblies under saitek, which causes false inputs.
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Well, mine works fine. If you were going to upgrade, you might as well upgrade rather crossgrade - go the whole hog and get a cougar.
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I’m holding off, the word on the street is after this whole hornet tomcat screw in grip, there may be a Eurofighter HOTAS trickling down the pipe in a few years. I have everything, I prefer the x56 because of the ease of making key profiles and I can’t hold metal long without my hand freaking out and the skin getting all red and rosy. I also, just like the x56 layout and selections better.
EDIT POST: I don’t have an x65, that is some rare kit. and Like you guys, despite hell or high water if I could snap one up I would for sure.