Multiplayer zoom feature request
-
Thats only a few miles… quite frankly, a fast moving bug out aircraft below with planform aspect SHOULD be quite visible in that scenario.
-
Thats only a few miles… quite frankly, a fast moving bug out aircraft below with planform aspect SHOULD be quite visible in that scenario.
Please test it if you think so.
In reality, in BMS DF, you lose tally quicker than you anticipate, much quicker. -
Please test it if you think so.
In reality, in BMS DF, you lose tally quicker than you anticipate, much quicker.Which one? test in reality? or in BMS DF?
You already know how it goes in BMS DF and are complaining about it, so clearly thats not what you want me to test. I regret that I dont have access to a fast jet to just do a quick dogfight in, sadly.
What I am pointing out is that IRL you should be quite visible with only a couple miles separation, a planform aspect and a high LOS rate… my point is that while the technique may not be realistic, the result (tally) probably is.
-
Which one? test in reality? or in BMS DF?
You already know how it goes in BMS DF and are complaining about it, so clearly thats not what you want me to test. I regret that I dont have access to a fast jet to just do a quick dogfight in, sadly.
What I am pointing out is that IRL you should be quite visible with only a couple miles separation, a planform aspect and a high LOS rate… my point is that while the technique may not be realistic, the result (tally) probably is.
I do not understand your arguments and the relevance to the discussion at hand.
1. I am not complaining but requesting.
2. My own quote: “In reality, in BMS DF,” thence…
Not in real life, not in real DF and I think my grammar was pretty spot on to understand what I meant…
Now, if you have something to contribute to the discussion, as others here have, please do… -
in IRL, it is easier to spot something on the ground at high altitude …try to make test the next time you take plane for a trip: find for example an object on ground and after 1minute, take a look outside by the window …you will be surprised the time necessary find it !
now we know it is rather tricky with BMS…so disable Zoom I do not think that it is helpful to anyone!
-
now we know it is rather tricky with BMS…so disable Zoom I do not think that it is helpful to anyone!
It is my experience, though I may be mistaken, that visibility in BMS is as close to RL as can be in 2D and way better than DCS.
I have flown against many and usually very good DF players.
They are that good because of skills, of knowing the plane, of knowing the charts and numbers, mastering ACM and they have the mind to do that.
Only recently had I encountered a few examples of zoom usage by others in DF and I found out after some inquires that it has been more widespread than I had known or anticipated.
If we pride ourselves on flying the best high fidelity sim then why can’t we just learn to fly ACM better?
I am proud to be a friend of guys who learn, teach, share and practice the ACM bible and who have become so painfully good just because of their skills.
Isn’t what it’s all about?
Doing something we love and become better at it? -
FOV and resolution should have no correlation. FOV depends on monitor size and distance from the eye, ie, how many degrees of your vision does it take up.
I meant in-game FOV, not how wide you see the monitor.
-
I meant in-game FOV, not how wide you see the monitor.
The whole point of FOV, (albeit mainly in shooters) is to get the 3D game to match the angles of the real World. Ideally, should you measure the angles that the screen takes up from your viewpoint and set the FOV to that. Even on my 35" 21:9 I’d hazard a guess that the FOV should only actually be set 65-70, degrees. I personally like a slightly higher FOV, but my point is that FOV setting depends not on resolution at all. Higher FOV and lower resolution will make targets harder to spot but they are not dependant on eachother.
-
The contribution I am making is this: That you would be better off asking the developers to enforce a resolution check. Ensure that all players have at most 640*480 resolution, to prevent cheating. Anything else is just disrespecting ACM skills.
-
parity with the real world should not be the goal, inertial sense does most of that, and that cannot be implemented in seatback simulation at home, only very rudimentary in motion controlled environment simulators. software and hardware varies greatly at home, any FOV restrictions will result in your face being planted in the HUD and no peripheral vision, a stylistic choice for game purposes that would in my opine be a faceplant. the largest drawback of displays and flight sims is peripheral, fov is the combat to this, or bevels in your view and multi display arrays, or wrapped projector displays. None of which has the ease of an fov slider or control. Zoom in flight sims is a necessary evil, being able to tally and scale your vision is just another skill set to learn and master.
-
Old, always recurring topic… bottom line… it depends in what ways one is willing (or able in fact) to build up SA… Some do it the proper way, using all data available - instruments, coms, data and mind (yes mind as in imagination) as in real, others use game-features and “workaround” shortcuts… Make it “easy”… because “others might do it too” etc. The “reasoning” to justify these things is wild open. That way of thinking however - lying to oneself (in my personal view) is optional and so far i have not seen such “shortcuts” (Zoom external view in our example) - being superior, or giving unfair advantages to those who rock without “game tools”. It is laughable, if people model TGP pods… and users “stalker TV ZOOM spot” ground-units instead as Polaris pointed.
whatever…each his own… there is nothing to proof to others… only the guy in the mirror must be proud of you we know that saying “BS yourself, but not me”
-
When you zoom in to a certain level, a binocular overlay should appear
-
A friend of mine used his 50" plasma TV for a time as a desktop monitor.
Its resolution was 1080. At 4ft away 1 pixel is so easy to see. No need for zoom.
-
The whole point of FOV, (albeit mainly in shooters) is to get the 3D game to match the angles of the real World. Ideally, should you measure the angles that the screen takes up from your viewpoint and set the FOV to that. Even on my 35" 21:9 I’d hazard a guess that the FOV should only actually be set 65-70, degrees. I personally like a slightly higher FOV, but my point is that FOV setting depends not on resolution at all. Higher FOV and lower resolution will make targets harder to spot but they are not dependant on eachother.
Visual Acuity: Can be calculated by Resolution and in-game FOV.
Visual Size: Can be calculated by Monitor size and your head position. And how in-game FOV matches(or differs from) those real life angle.You are talking about the later, I am talking about the former.
-
@A.S:
Old, always recurring topic… bottom line… it depends in what ways one is willing (or able in fact) to build up SA… Some do it the proper way, using all data available - instruments, coms, data and mind (yes mind as in imagination) as in real, others use game-features and “workaround” shortcuts… Make it “easy”… because “others might do it too” etc. The “reasoning” to justify these things is wild open. That way of thinking however - lying to oneself (in my personal view) is optional and so far i have not seen such “shortcuts” (Zoom external view in our example) - being superior, or giving unfair advantages to those who rock without “game tools”. It is laughable, if people model TGP pods… and users “stalker TV ZOOM spot” ground-units instead as Polaris pointed.
whatever…each his own… there is nothing to proof to others… only the guy in the mirror must be proud of you we know that saying “BS yourself, but not me”
I agree, you should have a radial compass visualized always- when I was trained to fly combat sims my instructor made me draw a picture simply from BRA and bulls calls. SA should be your biggest tool, even if you can’t tally with a good BRA or SA you can point the radar in vert scan quick as a lick.
-
A friend of mine used his 50" plasma TV for a time as a desktop monitor.
Its resolution was 1080. At 4ft away 1 pixel is so easy to see. No need for zoom.
I have two rigs, one is a wrapped projection that goes from abut 270 to 90, the other is a 57 inch samsung display i bought from the visuals team at target for 100 dollars- they are both GAME CHANGERS.
-
After reading all comments again, consulting with others and thinking about it further here are my final thoughts:
1. I request to have a dogfight option for outer zoom disabling.
2. As it is some players use zoom as the base for ACM “special” tactics and when flying with a person one doesn’t know it can ensure that it won’t be used.
3. Zoom has become a tool used quite often in flight sims to the extent many persons shall not fly without it on regular flights.
Most use it as a tool and not as an exploitation method and therefore it is up to the devs if they wish to include the zoom disabling option in TEs and campaigns.
4. As for those who use lower resolution and/ or video card tweaking for improved long distance visualization instead of having realistic graphics for DF…I shall be quite rude and ask them why don’t they fly Sony Playstation or Xbox…Till this issue is fixed I, personally, shall refrain from flying against people I don’t know or participate in DF challenges.
-
The most realistic 20/20 eye vision and 1:1 size fov setup for BMS:
- Purchase 4K monitor and set FOV to 64
(3840 px / 60 minOfDegreeVisualAcuity = 64 horizontalFov) - Disable Smart Scaling
(Serfoss research was done by 1600*1200 projector and 4K has twice horizontal pixels, therefore without 2.0x magnification for distant aircraft it is already as precise as enabling Smart Scaling) - Distance to Screen = Monitor Width * 0.8
(Results in 64 monitorHorizontalFov)
For who plays in FHD:
- Set FOV to 64
(1920 px / 64 horizontalFov = 30 minOfDegreeVisualAcuity) - Enable Smart Scaling
(Now distant plane will be magnified 2.0x larger and you will have an as precise image as 60 minOfDegreeVisualAcuity, Serfoss research was also done by 1600*1200 projector wihich pixel size is almost same to that of FHD resolution) - Distance to Screen = Monitor Width * 1.75
(Results in 32 monitorHorizontalFov, but distant plane magnified by Smart Scaling is now 1:1 size)
For who want wider horizontalFov
- Purchase 5K monitor and set FOV to 85
(5120 px / 60 minOfDegreeVisualAcuity = 85 horizontalFov) - Disable Smart Scaling.
- Distance to Screen = Monitor Width * 0.55
(Results in 85 monitorHorizontalFov)
EDIT:
For 2560*1440 it should be 2560 / 60 = 42 hFOV, disabling Smart Scaling and monitor distance = width * 1.3 (42FOV). Or 2560 / 30 = 85 hFOV, enabling Smart Scaling and monitor distance = width * 0.55(85 hFOV).
- Purchase 4K monitor and set FOV to 64
-
For sure Rosenkranz in’ vipers in the storm’ uses binoculars for mud missions, but I can’t see some pilot in a 9g BFM setup peering through his binoculars to gain tally or something like that. I’m sure there’s some way to disable/moderate players unrealistic use of the zoom function in Falcon. After all, those of us who fly regular BFM/ACM setups are aware of how zoom affects realism in Falcon. But there’s bigger fish to fry falcon friends: We need to get our 4.34 falcon community up and running with large scale events, whether that’s through Badboys TVT, co op missions or Falcon online. Lets think macro before micro.
-
One possible way to achieve it could be to allow the zoom only from +5° to -90° relative ot a/c axis. So one could use the zoom to simulate binoculars for an air to ground task (target visual identification/recon …) but not being able to use it in air to air engagement. And/or make it as specific MP option enforced by host.
Another way (much more elegant IMO) would be to simulate the weight of binoculars (including NVGs) and makes the head proportionally bending downward (dynamic head positioning) and being unstable with G loads increasing accosiated to the impossibility (beyond a given G load) to raise the head without going back to a lower G load close to 2Gs => no more dog-fight with zoom of NVGs.
But I wouldn’t hold my breath on any of them.