Dcs World Viper and Falcon BMS
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Actually, DCS is pretty well documented (except the most raw EA modules). It’s Il-2 that suffers from lack of… well, everything besides raw airplane specs. DCS manuals and training missions are actually pretty good.
But lacks the most important feature BMS has. Even with blue flag it still lacks drastically.
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While my popcorn is popping, let me throw in my .02…
BMS-Polished, Documented, Supported, and Free
DCS-not
OOps, popcorn done…continue threadPopcorn but no beer?
No good for this endless showNext show opening at theaters near you and hosted by ED in 3…2…1…
We shall have the pleasure of hosting again just after the holidays.
Sorry bout that -
OP plays both and has to ask which is better lol
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First of all welcome to Falcon 4.0 BMS community forum. We hope and wish you enjoy your time here and become an active contributing member as well which is how this simulator exists in all it’s glory over the decades.
Let’s clear out that I’m not a BMS developer team member. Just a long time Falcon user and a community member for many years and bellow are all personal thoughts and guidance for you.
This is not a developers forum but lot’s of developers are members contributing with their knowledge and expertise.
Have in mind that the whole BMS project is a community build up project from people in their free time. No one is getting payed here for developing anything for BMS core or theater or add on or modification. Please don’t suggest payments or contributions… the team doesn’t accept it.
Mainly it’s an F-16 simulator regarding the airframe and a war simulator regarding the whole application with the famous falcon dynamic campaign which is unique in this sector.So let’s get down with it.
History of Falcon:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?11123-The-Falcon-Epopee-The-history-of-Falcon-4First check if your system is up to it:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?132Some basic FAQ:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?131While you start downloading it might be a good point to start reading about it… yeap lot’s of pages which you will find later on on your BMS setup folder in the DOC’s subfolder:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?78-DocumentationOh if you find something wrong in the documents, please verify it first with a solid source, or if you find a typo please post it here (community, we help each other):
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?35681-BMS-4-34-Documents-correction-reportHow to get Falcon BMS and install it:
You need the original Falcon 4.0 Installed on your pc. Then you download and install Falcon BMS which is a separate installation. Falcon 4.0 is needed just cause a valid licensed Falcon 4.0 must be present in order to install BMS. You don’t need Falcon 4.0 other than the BMS installation.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?27533-GoG-Falcon4-to-BMS-for-Dummies
the following guide is from 4.33 and it’s updates and the same principal is for 4.34
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?31312-Starting-with-Falcon-4-BMS-4-33-Update-3
Here you can find links to download BMS latest version:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?47-AnnouncementsYes the UI is 1024x768… so live with it. We all do you can too.
You can have it full screen which is ok or windowed mode which is not ok on large resolution. U choose.
Read the manual how to operate and adjust the windowed mode.U can have an alternative Launcher:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?31774-Falcon-BMS-Alternative-Launcher-(Easy-Setup-Keep-Joystick-Assignments)Weapons Delivery Planner (WDP) is a fundamental application for mission preparation:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?5292-Weapon-Delivery-Planner-releasedYou can create your missions within the BMS UI but you can use Mission Commander (MC) which is for the advanced user that knows his way around:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?10005-Mission-Commander-beta-releaseIf you prefer there is a nice suite of apps for Falcon BMS here:
http://www.weapondeliveryplanner.nl/Real Weather Data: Oh yes we enjoy them… and besides BMS options and tool, here is a fine tool:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?29203-F4Wx-Real-Weather-ConverterNow how do you learn the THING… well easy. You must devote a considerable amount of time.
Read the manuals, practice the training missions, watch some wonderful training videos in youtube. Watch out those videos cause each user has his own practice and procedures. The manuals are the point of reference here and they cover almost every aspect for the newcomer, we are proud of them so read them first or you’ll get many RTFM’s by asking around everything in the forums.
You can find some videos here along with many valuable info for BMS, Just scroll down to the In game tactics - tricks - videos section or search for videos or tutorials.THEATERS: Oh yes those are free too and plenty to choose from.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?32-Theater-DiscussionNow that you broke the ice and maybe managed your first landing and maybe your first mission or campaign well it’s time to get serious and join a virtual squadron to get you to the next level, discover and enjoy the essence of Falcon BMS.
Here is the full list of virtual squadrons:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?32205-List-of-Virtual-Fighter-Wings-and-SquadronsYou will be greatly rewarded. The experience is phenomenal and unparallel. The level of knowledge and expertise you will experience and gain is one of a kind. Though the Falcon AI are ok there is nothing compared to the war’s and battle’s that take place in the virtual skies of Falcon by joining large packages or participating in online PvP dynamic campaigns.
Most Virtual Squadrons have years of knowledge and are very serious. They have structured training programs for you to gain your wings. They are more than willing to help and support active newbs and members. And most of all the climate and relationship between them is what builds up friendships.Now let’s remind you that all the above are totally Free. You don’t have to pay anything for those, and we just scratched the surface of it. Needles to say as easy its for you to get them and install them and enjoy them, it’s way hard and time consuming to build all this. Some take years.
If you find something wrong or a bug please try to reproduce it and be on a vanilla setup.
Post your bugs here:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?30-Technical-SupportBased on this:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?35644-How-to-make-a-bug-reportSo please be respectful and grateful cause many community members contributed so that everyone can enjoy their hard work and free time effort from the smallest to the biggest innovation that came to Falcon BMS world.
Once you spot something that is missing or is inaccurate or could be better, first validate and confirm from a valid source. In most cases we end up to real pilots or official documents and then we report things to the forum.We don’t discuss about new features or new release and their time schedule.
The dev team has a free selection from their to-do list and they go along as they see fit and what pleases them to work on. We already know the release dates and they are on a rigid time period. This period is “3-4 weeks”. Which means it will be released when it’s ready and that’s when the dev team will be ok and tested it and it’s ok with them to be released publicly. So don’t waste your time asking about those. Your answer is the same “3-4 weeks” always. You can always make suggestions for new things, but please don’t go like this should be in already and it’s a joke that it isn’t. Your thread will be locked and you will get the answer of: “ Oh since you know all and you can do all come join the effort and you do it and provide it for free to the community”. So please don’t play it a wise guy.The typical questions like how accurate BMS is or how real it is, or if it’s better then others etc. well it’s all answered many many many times here in the forum and previous forums over the decades of Falcon and Falcon BMS life and we are bored with it to tell you the truth. The history of it, the fact that real fighter squadrons use it and real fighter pilots are shocked by using Falcon BMS speaks for it and makes the team and the community super proud about it and it’s the fuel to keep pushing to make it even better in the future. Yes it has and real fighter pilots that contribute and are active developer members. No one knows them (for obvious reasons) but they are there. Could it be better? Well please read ahead…
Many aspects are not proven and you will never get a proof. BMS manages to get the data needed and be close to the real thing as much as possible. We trust those guys for decades and they have proven their intentions and expertise. If you want to question them also think twice. Someone already did before you, so don’t just be another comet. We still give them (Developer’s) hell but not just cause but on specific aspects and with valid verified information. Their free time is valuable and we respect that. We don’t want to waste their time cause we heard something from a friend whose friend has a friend which is a pilot and something is wrong in BMS. Or this sim has this and not that or the other… The team has a long list and things to implement and the future and new features are very exciting. We experience that in every BMS release major or update. We wish you will also be part of it and help in the process of making BMS even better with constructive criticism.
So since we got there… start considering your participation to the community. It’s our ethical duty not only to receive free and enjoy but to provide back to the community so that Falcon BMS will go to the next level and kind of pay for our vast enjoyment by using this extensive platform. Yes you can enjoy it for free for as long as you like. No one is going to force you about it, but please on the back of your head once in a while think what it took for all this to be build up and how and the endless time that it took.
All you have to do is find the way and what would you like to help with and start a thread in the forum asking around. No need to be an expert to a field, you will become if not as most of us did. The whole community will help out. Be prepared, the Falcon “monster”, as we call it, is not an easy task to develop. It needs stamina and dedication. Are you up to it?I believe it covers as your questions…
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To get good experience out of multiplayer in a simulator, you basically need to fly with a group that takes it seriously, anyway. Besides detailed aircraft modeling, the procedures are another thing that needs to be learned. BMS does a good job at having AI follow them, at least, DCS less so. Either way, you need to have people who take time to learn the procedures and fly in a way that makes sense.
It’s the same with ArmA3, from what I’ve heard. I’d expect any serious simulation that has public servers to follow this pattern. It doesn’t matter how many servers there are, if none of them are any good. Only private servers are worth anything.
You just need a maker with sufficient imagination. All that is possible in DCS, just takes a lot of time and effort to make. The mission editor is quite capable, though like with all scripted solutions, it takes lot of work to get good results out of it.
Well, yes - you just need to pour water, add salt, throw some potatoes and meat, a little rice and you will have porridge from the ax. Voila …)))
I realized that you are defending DCS here - good luck in this difficult matter. Good does not need to be praised. -
Actually, DCS is pretty well documented (except the most raw EA modules). It’s Il-2 that suffers from lack of… well, everything besides raw airplane specs. DCS manuals and training missions are actually pretty good.
Not true (bullshit)
I know exactly how documents are made. Such a bad attitude towards the players that the Text translation to the game that was done in Russia is done by the players themselves. This is a disregard for the players of the country in which the game was made.
By the way, the documentation is done on the basis of the Falcon principle, and all because Chizh once started with the Falcon and even did the translation of parts of the manual into Russian.
But not everything is as good as in Falcon.
But what are we arguing about here)). You like DCS - fly to health. Come to the DCS forum and for the fact that you will praise him they will give you a reward)) maybe even a medal.
And my choice is Falcon. And to prove that something is better than him is just a waste of time.
I know DCS from the moment of birth to today. I know his problems from the inside and DCS will never even come close to Falcon - they have a different goal.I’ll add this opinion - a lot of people want to play Falcon, but they don’t know how. All the documentation and many features are only in English. I am now translating training missions and making videos - how to play Falcon. You will see how many people who speak only Russian will come into the game. They are waiting for me to do this work.
Good luck
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All I can say is that I hadn’t flown Falcon in over 10 years.
DCS all the way. I tried twice to get back in, but failed at different hurdles (I think the last one was the new way HARMs worked).
Shall we NOW say……that even though DCS have very kindly given us most modules for FREE for a month…I’m now back in to my beloved Falcon.Honestly - you developers deserve…something. You’ve done such a top notch job. THANK YOU.
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All that is possible in DCS, just takes a lot of time and effort to make. The mission editor is quite capable, though like with all scripted solutions, it takes lot of work to get good results out of it.
Please, (try) to create the following (VERY basic) COMAO:
4 x F-16 in SEAD : Push 10:00:00 / FL280
4 x F-15 in SWEEP : Push 10:02:00 / FL320
4 x F-18 in STRIKE : Push 10:03:00 / FL240
2 x F-18 in ESCORT : Push 10:04:00 / FL260Mandatory:
Same spacing on TGT than on Push.
All a/c must depart from the same airbase.
Push time has to preceded by a Hold.
All a/c must Push +/- 10s.
All a/c must recover on the same airbase.
Target, defense (no needed) and navigation of your choice.…
Fly the mission and send my the track/mission …
Personally, I’ve spend a huge time to try to create such “easy” package mission using all kind of advanced options. Without success.
AIs do not manage a proper timing on Push/Target.FAIL.
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@POLARIS1
https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/gbnqlg/unpopular_opinion_taking_a_break_from_dcs/This kind of post was unimagineable year or two ago.
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Please, (try) to create the following (VERY basic) COMAO:
4 x F-16 in SEAD : Push 10:00:00 / FL280
4 x F-15 in SWEEP : Push 10:02:00 / FL320
4 x F-18 in STRIKE : Push 10:03:00 / FL240
2 x F-18 in ESCORT : Push 10:04:00 / FL260Mandatory:
Same spacing on TGT than on Push.
All a/c must depart from the same airbase.
Push time has to preceded by a Hold.
All a/c must Push +/- 10s.
All a/c must recover on the same airbase.
Target, defense (no needed) and navigation of your choice.…
Fly the mission and send my the track/mission …
Personally, I’ve spend a huge time to try to create such “easy” package mission using all kind of advanced options. Without success.
AIs do not manage a proper timing on Push/Target.FAIL.
Well, create that COMAO in BMS and have the AI fly that mission into a defended area and most likely all of them will be shot down. Every sim has its shortcomings… I agree that timing wise a mission like that is probably easier to make in BMS than DCS. But the DCS mission builder also allows you to do things that BMS doesn’t, like I described in the thread over in the software corner section.
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… into a defended area and most likely all of them will be shot down.
Which is not the case in DCS? …
Timing management is the VERY basic things that ant combat pilot has to master before its first mission. Before evading SAMs, one must be able to Push on time.
… And land properly after a mission.Mission builder is nice … but if AIs cannot follow programmed instruction …
Few other things I don’t like … AIs no able to take off on some airbase when wind is not coming from the right direction.
AIs standing on runway, wing-man unable to stop or avoid collision.
AIs transposing (not in Multiplayer) … with all the consequences coming with (missile miss due to AI instantaneously transposing tens netters further away).
… when I say that to me, those kind of bug are really show-stopper and should be considered in high priority, I recieve some “Infraction points” and my posts are suppressed.
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AIs standing on runway, wing-man unable to stop or avoid collision.
Same thing, but even more frustrating due to less space available, happens on aircraft carrier(s).
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@POLARIS1
https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/gbnqlg/unpopular_opinion_taking_a_break_from_dcs/This kind of post was unimagineable year or two ago.
Are you sure?
Threads like this come up on a regular basis with the same ping pong almost to the letter.
They contribute nothing to no one and serve as no more as a place to pass time to make room for more time (my original quote from Kaveret).Why?
Simple.
One always adores one’s wife’s lasagna.More than that…while we have the better aircraft and TE/ Campaign engine ED have the numbers (eg players) by a landslide.
So…let’s stop comparing dick sizes and start turning the tide.
What does it matter what is better as I see more of the people I know give up and fly DCS.And…if it was up to me I would have just closed these mushrooms after the rain who’s bigger threads after ten posts.
You will not learn anything new after that.
Even from my posts. -
Which is not the case in DCS? …
Well yes, and from what I understand probably even worse.
All I’m saying every sim has its shortcomings. DCS mission builder also allows you to do things that you can’t in BMS.Few other things I don’t like … AIs no able to take off on some airbase when wind is not coming from the right direction.
Well yesterday I decided to fly a campaign mission in 4.34. The first one in 4.34 for me. I usually fly TE’s and it’s been a while since I flew in a campaign. But had quite a few issues there as well. Some simple things like my pilot voice and AWACS talking at the same time. I asked AWACS for a picture and as soon as AWACS started talking, my pilot voice started to call out bandits making AWACS impossible to hear. This is easily fixed of course by disabling my own pilot voice. But AWACS also stopped talking halfway through transmissions sometimes. Like Viper 2-1, I have 2 groups…first group…then nothing anymore. This happened 2 or 3 times during the mission. Then when I RTB’d at the end of the mission there was an aircraft stuck on the landing runway. He was just sitting there and was still there when I was shut down on the ramp. And after shut down I noticed ATC calling out to an AI flight if there was a problem so I started to look around and noticed some AI jets pointing at each other getting stuck trying to taxi. I admit these type of problems in BMS are quite rare and was quite surprised to run into these things, but all in all the campaign mission was a bit messy this time. Not what I’m used to in BMS.
… when I say that to me, those kind of bug are really show-stopper and should be considered in high priority, I recieve some “Infraction points” and my posts are suppressed.
I understand and would agree. I haven’t flown single player in DCS yet, I’ve only flown it multiplayer with my brother (which is the only reason I even have DCS). And these flights worked quite all right. But single player would probably frustrate me as well.
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I understand and would agree. I haven’t flown single player in DCS yet, I’ve only flown it multiplayer with my brother (which is the only reason I even have DCS). And these flights worked quite all right. But single player would probably frustrate me as well.
To experience those bugs you just need to fly a mission, regardless of multiplayer or singleplayer. AI in SP is the same AI in MP.
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On hoggit? I am 95% percent sure it is rather new trend after 4.34 AND DCS F-16.
For sure people are moving to DCS (and from DCS as well). Hell, even I decided few months ago to give DCS another chance. But while it does look and sound veeery good and has FAPTASTIC Tomcat and cool Harrier the whole exprience is rather disappointing…
But I am very biased and spoiled - it is hard for me to enjoy any SP/MP simulator other than BMS. I like Il-2 GB and CloD, but they also… suck in terms of overall exprience due to poor AI, ATC and so on.
And…if it was up to me I would have just closed these mushrooms after the rain who’s bigger threads after ten posts.
You will not learn anything new after that.
Even from my posts.100% agree, also applicable to my posts.
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Well yesterday I decided to fly a campaign mission in 4.34. The first one in 4.34 for me. I usually fly TE’s and it’s been a while since I flew in a campaign. But had quite a few issues there as well. Some simple things like my pilot voice and AWACS talking at the same time. I asked AWACS for a picture and as soon as AWACS started talking, my pilot voice started to call out bandits making AWACS impossible to hear. This is easily fixed of course by disabling my own pilot voice. But AWACS also stopped talking halfway through transmissions sometimes. Like Viper 2-1, I have 2 groups…first group…then nothing anymore. This happened 2 or 3 times during the mission. Then when I RTB’d at the end of the mission there was an aircraft stuck on the landing runway. He was just sitting there and was still there when I was shut down on the ramp. And after shut down I noticed ATC calling out to an AI flight if there was a problem so I started to look around and noticed some AI jets pointing at each other getting stuck trying to taxi. I admit these type of problems in BMS are quite rare and was quite surprised to run into these things, but all in all the campaign mission was a bit messy this time. Not what I’m used to in BMS.
I never experienced that in maybe 3000+ hours of BMS, so you’re pretty unlucky to experience that in a single flight…
On hoggit? I am 95% percent sure it is rather new trend after 4.34 AND DCS F-16.
Yup. There was always a rant thread there and there, but in the last 6-9 months they have become increasingly frequent;
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To experience those bugs you just need to fly a mission, regardless of multiplayer or singleplayer. AI in SP is the same AI in MP.
I’m very new to DCS, we’ve only flown a few basic 2v2 intercepts and dogfights so far. Nothing fancy. So can’t really judge yet. My brother has flown DCS a bit longer and he did say that the AI is pretty poor compared to BMS.
I never experienced that in maybe 3000+ hours of BMS, so you’re pretty unlucky to experience that in a single flight…
Me neither. This was the first campaign mission I flew since I have 4.34. But I’ve flown quite a few campaign missions in the past in 4.32 and 4.33 and never had this before either.
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If no one noticed, then I’ll tell you - there is no game in the DCS … in general, from the word at all. There is a desperate desire to make money on the big names of the models Mig 21, F-14, now Falcon.
But there is no game … whoever found, please show me,maybe i was looking not there.With Mig 21 it’s a shame, they sold the model so far and haven’t solved all of its bugs and will never solve it. Sold out and bye)). Correct me if I am wrong.
To be honest . I didn’t want and don’t want to discuss DCS in this place - I left it and made a choice for many reasons.
Here is Falcon’s HOUSE, and let’s talk about the beautiful without touching any DCS …https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4257045#post4257045
This is my last conversation with Chizh on the forum.Talk about how different Falcon and DCS are.
I hope who such Chizh is not necessary to explain.
You can translate Google translator into English.My nickname on the form was “reg_zero” -
BMS is great realism but I think it should add some of this: