Dcs World Viper and Falcon BMS
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4. Most chances if you wanna fly online now you shall find someone over at DCS.
BMS is mostly deserted…other than small groups of friends or wings/ squadrons.
Lone wolves have more chance to fly with someone over at DCS.LOL are you kidding ? Are you serious ?
Well i simply think that you are completely out of space :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
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Facts:
1. There are 3 modules in DCS which are as closely accurate as the BMS Falcon and they are only A-10C, KA-50 and P-51D.
All else might be more or less complex but are missing important systems or are inaccurate with other features.2. DCS Persian Golf has serious issues which inhibit proper movement of ground forces.
3. DCS eye candy regarding terrain and cockpit shadows BMS by far, especially real terrain…which is a flat land in BMS.
4. Most chances if you wanna fly online now you shall find someone over at DCS.
BMS is mostly deserted…other than small groups of friends or wings/ squadrons.
Lone wolves have more chance to fly with someone over at DCS.5. Flying in DCS is usually more like a fix: you get in, you fly, you don’t really communicate with someone and you land…or change airplane mid air.
Nothing too complicated or smart or dynamic.
(Unless you run complicated scripts and plan a mission for ages).6. BMS Falcon is not completely accurate per block but more of a compromise regarding certain avionics and switchology.
There is no right or wrong.
More than that…while we are continuously making a point out of BMS accuracy over DCS falcon…we are actually loosing the match.
One can be as righteous (and correct) as one wants but the masses are going elsewhere (sadly).My fear is that by the time the dedicated BMS developers (which do that on their spare time and have to suffer our constant complaints no matter what they do) give us an update that will actually rival the DCS eye candies and a terrain that has mountains and ravines…most won’t actually be around to fly it but over at the dark side.
By the way…I have the DCS Falcon.
It looks the part.
It certainly doesn’t play it.There is no point in the accuracy of the simulationif it’s impossible to do anything with it.
I do not know what to do with such precise A-10С, Ka-50 and Mustang.)) I have them since the test times. But only this does not give anything. The graphics that in the DCS and in Falcon are approximately equally backward from the shooters. But this is a flight simulation program. And this is quite normal. -
Honestly I am no longer convinced that BMS is loosing something. Contrary, since 4.34 and especially DCS Viper I am observing more and more guys posting on reddit question 'How/where to start with BMS?".
And I am no longer sure that DCS is a rival of BMS and vice versa… I mean, while I like the opportunity of flying many platforms - especially amazing Tomcat, Black Shark and Harrie -) in DCS the gameplay stucks in the middle of 90’s. And MP session even with **not-**random guy is rather disappointing: briefing is basic , planning is a joke, replayabilty is very limited and debriefing simply does not exist.
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Honestly I am no longer convinced that BMS is loosing something. Contrary, since 4.34 and especially DCS Viper I am observing more and more guys posting on reddit question 'How/where to start with BMS?".
And I am no longer sure that DCS is a rival of BMS and vice versa… I mean, while I like the opportunity of flying many platforms - especially amazing Tomcat, Black Shark and Harrie -) in DCS the gameplay stucks in the middle of 90’s. And MP session even with **not-**random guy is rather disappointing: briefing is basic , planning is a joke, replayabilty is very limited and debriefing simply does not exist.
Absolutely correct remark. Many people are interested in BMS right now. The game is not simple and many simply do not know how to play it. They are waiting for translation and explanations of how and what to do in BMS.
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On my planet most people I know, which are about 90% BMS users, log at least 1 minute of flight in DCS for each BMS minute.
Most of them log at least twice or three times as much.I know about Bad Boy’s server and the splendid work done over there.
My wing also runs flights on a regular basis.
But, tell me this…do you need more than one hand to count the number of servers running at the same time?
How many of them have at least 4 online?
Check DCS online servers at any given time…you will find hundreds.Don’t be mistaken for I love BMS.
Everything about it makes sense to me (well…most )so much more than DCS.
But…when one is stuck at proving one’s point while most else just go elsewhere one is actually missing the point… -
On my planet most people I know, which are about 90% BMS users, log at least 1 minute of flight in DCS for each BMS minute.
Most of them log at least twice or three times as much.I know about Bad Boy’s server and the splendid work done over there.
My wing also runs flights on a regular basis.
But, tell me this…do you need more than one hand to count the number of servers running at the same time?
How many of them have at least 4 online?
Check DCS online servers at any given time…you will find hundreds.Don’t be mistaken for I love BMS.
Everything about it makes sense to me (well…most )so much more than DCS.
But…when one is stuck at proving one’s point while most else just go elsewhere one is actually missing the point…With servers, everything is just simple - In the DCS they are ALL in one place. In BMS, each server for the game, each group creates itself and they are not visible. We flew 5, 6 people and none of you knew about it. This is how BMS works.
In any case, I personally came to the DCS from Falcon 4.0, after 15 years I left the DCS and play only Falcon. It comes with time when you understand what you need. -
With servers, everything is just simple - In the DCS they are ALL in one place. In BMS, each server for the game, each group creates itself and they are not visible. We flew 5, 6 people and none of you knew about it. This is how BMS works.
In any case, I personally came to the DCS from Falcon 4.0, after 15 years I left the DCS and play only Falcon. It comes with time when you understand what you need.Exactly. Sure that only few servers are available for massive dynamic campaign running 24/7 during 25 days. But lots of guys are hosting every day some coop/campaign online game sessions
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…you will find hundreds.
… Landing on taxiways and firing their own team mates … etc … performing barrel rolls around power lines.
I run away from those servers … I usually do not live long enough to perform a complete ramp start, killed by a player colliding me while trying to perform a low pass me to impress spectators. -
Ha, funny. We were 13 tonight. Didn’t even think that could be a number.
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To get good experience out of multiplayer in a simulator, you basically need to fly with a group that takes it seriously, anyway. Besides detailed aircraft modeling, the procedures are another thing that needs to be learned. BMS does a good job at having AI follow them, at least, DCS less so. Either way, you need to have people who take time to learn the procedures and fly in a way that makes sense.
It’s the same with ArmA3, from what I’ve heard. I’d expect any serious simulation that has public servers to follow this pattern. It doesn’t matter how many servers there are, if none of them are any good. Only private servers are worth anything.
@joujou:You have a good point. This is a biased opinion but, would still prefer that the rest of the world existed even in such cases, both for immersion and possibilities, even small ones, of things happening beyond the limits of the maker’s imagination. There’s been the rare case of a western fighter on its anti-ISIS mission coming across an old Soviet ground attack aircraft… things like that
You just need a maker with sufficient imagination. All that is possible in DCS, just takes a lot of time and effort to make. The mission editor is quite capable, though like with all scripted solutions, it takes lot of work to get good results out of it.
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While my popcorn is popping, let me throw in my .02…
BMS-Polished, Documented, Supported, and Free
DCS-not
OOps, popcorn done…continue thread -
Actually, DCS is pretty well documented (except the most raw EA modules). It’s Il-2 that suffers from lack of… well, everything besides raw airplane specs. DCS manuals and training missions are actually pretty good.
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Actually, DCS is pretty well documented (except the most raw EA modules). It’s Il-2 that suffers from lack of… well, everything besides raw airplane specs. DCS manuals and training missions are actually pretty good.
But lacks the most important feature BMS has. Even with blue flag it still lacks drastically.
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While my popcorn is popping, let me throw in my .02…
BMS-Polished, Documented, Supported, and Free
DCS-not
OOps, popcorn done…continue threadPopcorn but no beer?
No good for this endless showNext show opening at theaters near you and hosted by ED in 3…2…1…
We shall have the pleasure of hosting again just after the holidays.
Sorry bout that -
OP plays both and has to ask which is better lol
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First of all welcome to Falcon 4.0 BMS community forum. We hope and wish you enjoy your time here and become an active contributing member as well which is how this simulator exists in all it’s glory over the decades.
Let’s clear out that I’m not a BMS developer team member. Just a long time Falcon user and a community member for many years and bellow are all personal thoughts and guidance for you.
This is not a developers forum but lot’s of developers are members contributing with their knowledge and expertise.
Have in mind that the whole BMS project is a community build up project from people in their free time. No one is getting payed here for developing anything for BMS core or theater or add on or modification. Please don’t suggest payments or contributions… the team doesn’t accept it.
Mainly it’s an F-16 simulator regarding the airframe and a war simulator regarding the whole application with the famous falcon dynamic campaign which is unique in this sector.So let’s get down with it.
History of Falcon:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?11123-The-Falcon-Epopee-The-history-of-Falcon-4First check if your system is up to it:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?132Some basic FAQ:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?131While you start downloading it might be a good point to start reading about it… yeap lot’s of pages which you will find later on on your BMS setup folder in the DOC’s subfolder:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?78-DocumentationOh if you find something wrong in the documents, please verify it first with a solid source, or if you find a typo please post it here (community, we help each other):
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?35681-BMS-4-34-Documents-correction-reportHow to get Falcon BMS and install it:
You need the original Falcon 4.0 Installed on your pc. Then you download and install Falcon BMS which is a separate installation. Falcon 4.0 is needed just cause a valid licensed Falcon 4.0 must be present in order to install BMS. You don’t need Falcon 4.0 other than the BMS installation.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?27533-GoG-Falcon4-to-BMS-for-Dummies
the following guide is from 4.33 and it’s updates and the same principal is for 4.34
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?31312-Starting-with-Falcon-4-BMS-4-33-Update-3
Here you can find links to download BMS latest version:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?47-AnnouncementsYes the UI is 1024x768… so live with it. We all do you can too.
You can have it full screen which is ok or windowed mode which is not ok on large resolution. U choose.
Read the manual how to operate and adjust the windowed mode.U can have an alternative Launcher:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?31774-Falcon-BMS-Alternative-Launcher-(Easy-Setup-Keep-Joystick-Assignments)Weapons Delivery Planner (WDP) is a fundamental application for mission preparation:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?5292-Weapon-Delivery-Planner-releasedYou can create your missions within the BMS UI but you can use Mission Commander (MC) which is for the advanced user that knows his way around:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?10005-Mission-Commander-beta-releaseIf you prefer there is a nice suite of apps for Falcon BMS here:
http://www.weapondeliveryplanner.nl/Real Weather Data: Oh yes we enjoy them… and besides BMS options and tool, here is a fine tool:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?29203-F4Wx-Real-Weather-ConverterNow how do you learn the THING… well easy. You must devote a considerable amount of time.
Read the manuals, practice the training missions, watch some wonderful training videos in youtube. Watch out those videos cause each user has his own practice and procedures. The manuals are the point of reference here and they cover almost every aspect for the newcomer, we are proud of them so read them first or you’ll get many RTFM’s by asking around everything in the forums.
You can find some videos here along with many valuable info for BMS, Just scroll down to the In game tactics - tricks - videos section or search for videos or tutorials.THEATERS: Oh yes those are free too and plenty to choose from.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?32-Theater-DiscussionNow that you broke the ice and maybe managed your first landing and maybe your first mission or campaign well it’s time to get serious and join a virtual squadron to get you to the next level, discover and enjoy the essence of Falcon BMS.
Here is the full list of virtual squadrons:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?32205-List-of-Virtual-Fighter-Wings-and-SquadronsYou will be greatly rewarded. The experience is phenomenal and unparallel. The level of knowledge and expertise you will experience and gain is one of a kind. Though the Falcon AI are ok there is nothing compared to the war’s and battle’s that take place in the virtual skies of Falcon by joining large packages or participating in online PvP dynamic campaigns.
Most Virtual Squadrons have years of knowledge and are very serious. They have structured training programs for you to gain your wings. They are more than willing to help and support active newbs and members. And most of all the climate and relationship between them is what builds up friendships.Now let’s remind you that all the above are totally Free. You don’t have to pay anything for those, and we just scratched the surface of it. Needles to say as easy its for you to get them and install them and enjoy them, it’s way hard and time consuming to build all this. Some take years.
If you find something wrong or a bug please try to reproduce it and be on a vanilla setup.
Post your bugs here:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?30-Technical-SupportBased on this:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?35644-How-to-make-a-bug-reportSo please be respectful and grateful cause many community members contributed so that everyone can enjoy their hard work and free time effort from the smallest to the biggest innovation that came to Falcon BMS world.
Once you spot something that is missing or is inaccurate or could be better, first validate and confirm from a valid source. In most cases we end up to real pilots or official documents and then we report things to the forum.We don’t discuss about new features or new release and their time schedule.
The dev team has a free selection from their to-do list and they go along as they see fit and what pleases them to work on. We already know the release dates and they are on a rigid time period. This period is “3-4 weeks”. Which means it will be released when it’s ready and that’s when the dev team will be ok and tested it and it’s ok with them to be released publicly. So don’t waste your time asking about those. Your answer is the same “3-4 weeks” always. You can always make suggestions for new things, but please don’t go like this should be in already and it’s a joke that it isn’t. Your thread will be locked and you will get the answer of: “ Oh since you know all and you can do all come join the effort and you do it and provide it for free to the community”. So please don’t play it a wise guy.The typical questions like how accurate BMS is or how real it is, or if it’s better then others etc. well it’s all answered many many many times here in the forum and previous forums over the decades of Falcon and Falcon BMS life and we are bored with it to tell you the truth. The history of it, the fact that real fighter squadrons use it and real fighter pilots are shocked by using Falcon BMS speaks for it and makes the team and the community super proud about it and it’s the fuel to keep pushing to make it even better in the future. Yes it has and real fighter pilots that contribute and are active developer members. No one knows them (for obvious reasons) but they are there. Could it be better? Well please read ahead…
Many aspects are not proven and you will never get a proof. BMS manages to get the data needed and be close to the real thing as much as possible. We trust those guys for decades and they have proven their intentions and expertise. If you want to question them also think twice. Someone already did before you, so don’t just be another comet. We still give them (Developer’s) hell but not just cause but on specific aspects and with valid verified information. Their free time is valuable and we respect that. We don’t want to waste their time cause we heard something from a friend whose friend has a friend which is a pilot and something is wrong in BMS. Or this sim has this and not that or the other… The team has a long list and things to implement and the future and new features are very exciting. We experience that in every BMS release major or update. We wish you will also be part of it and help in the process of making BMS even better with constructive criticism.
So since we got there… start considering your participation to the community. It’s our ethical duty not only to receive free and enjoy but to provide back to the community so that Falcon BMS will go to the next level and kind of pay for our vast enjoyment by using this extensive platform. Yes you can enjoy it for free for as long as you like. No one is going to force you about it, but please on the back of your head once in a while think what it took for all this to be build up and how and the endless time that it took.
All you have to do is find the way and what would you like to help with and start a thread in the forum asking around. No need to be an expert to a field, you will become if not as most of us did. The whole community will help out. Be prepared, the Falcon “monster”, as we call it, is not an easy task to develop. It needs stamina and dedication. Are you up to it?I believe it covers as your questions…
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To get good experience out of multiplayer in a simulator, you basically need to fly with a group that takes it seriously, anyway. Besides detailed aircraft modeling, the procedures are another thing that needs to be learned. BMS does a good job at having AI follow them, at least, DCS less so. Either way, you need to have people who take time to learn the procedures and fly in a way that makes sense.
It’s the same with ArmA3, from what I’ve heard. I’d expect any serious simulation that has public servers to follow this pattern. It doesn’t matter how many servers there are, if none of them are any good. Only private servers are worth anything.
You just need a maker with sufficient imagination. All that is possible in DCS, just takes a lot of time and effort to make. The mission editor is quite capable, though like with all scripted solutions, it takes lot of work to get good results out of it.
Well, yes - you just need to pour water, add salt, throw some potatoes and meat, a little rice and you will have porridge from the ax. Voila …)))
I realized that you are defending DCS here - good luck in this difficult matter. Good does not need to be praised. -
Actually, DCS is pretty well documented (except the most raw EA modules). It’s Il-2 that suffers from lack of… well, everything besides raw airplane specs. DCS manuals and training missions are actually pretty good.
Not true (bullshit)
I know exactly how documents are made. Such a bad attitude towards the players that the Text translation to the game that was done in Russia is done by the players themselves. This is a disregard for the players of the country in which the game was made.
By the way, the documentation is done on the basis of the Falcon principle, and all because Chizh once started with the Falcon and even did the translation of parts of the manual into Russian.
But not everything is as good as in Falcon.
But what are we arguing about here)). You like DCS - fly to health. Come to the DCS forum and for the fact that you will praise him they will give you a reward)) maybe even a medal.
And my choice is Falcon. And to prove that something is better than him is just a waste of time.
I know DCS from the moment of birth to today. I know his problems from the inside and DCS will never even come close to Falcon - they have a different goal.I’ll add this opinion - a lot of people want to play Falcon, but they don’t know how. All the documentation and many features are only in English. I am now translating training missions and making videos - how to play Falcon. You will see how many people who speak only Russian will come into the game. They are waiting for me to do this work.
Good luck
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All I can say is that I hadn’t flown Falcon in over 10 years.
DCS all the way. I tried twice to get back in, but failed at different hurdles (I think the last one was the new way HARMs worked).
Shall we NOW say……that even though DCS have very kindly given us most modules for FREE for a month…I’m now back in to my beloved Falcon.Honestly - you developers deserve…something. You’ve done such a top notch job. THANK YOU.
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All that is possible in DCS, just takes a lot of time and effort to make. The mission editor is quite capable, though like with all scripted solutions, it takes lot of work to get good results out of it.
Please, (try) to create the following (VERY basic) COMAO:
4 x F-16 in SEAD : Push 10:00:00 / FL280
4 x F-15 in SWEEP : Push 10:02:00 / FL320
4 x F-18 in STRIKE : Push 10:03:00 / FL240
2 x F-18 in ESCORT : Push 10:04:00 / FL260Mandatory:
Same spacing on TGT than on Push.
All a/c must depart from the same airbase.
Push time has to preceded by a Hold.
All a/c must Push +/- 10s.
All a/c must recover on the same airbase.
Target, defense (no needed) and navigation of your choice.…
Fly the mission and send my the track/mission …
Personally, I’ve spend a huge time to try to create such “easy” package mission using all kind of advanced options. Without success.
AIs do not manage a proper timing on Push/Target.FAIL.