F16 Brakes at 4 35
-
So which is the conclusion ?, it is the same now braking with or with not antiskid in a normal condition runway ?
-
All the aircraft anti-skid systems I’ve ever had to learn use metered brake pressure that is condition based. Difference between the two being that you may get 3K psi to the brakes with the system off and actually less pressure with the system on. It’s not always so much about reacting to the skid, it’s about preventing the skid in the first place.
Don’t know if simulated in this case, but most systems are disabled below about 15 kts ground speed as the spin up sensors are spinning too slow at that point. Used to watch -16s lock up brakes all the time on the ramp years ago when I was deployed around them and they got light on fuel weights coming back into their parking spots.
-
So which is the conclusion ?, it is the same now braking with or with not antiskid in a normal condition runway ?
Answered …
…
Mav-Jp confirm me that, while working on Anti-Skid and runway surface conditions, braking action has been re-calibrated to better match the RL charts! (I didn’t remember that he actually told me that month ago)
… so yes … you are right guys!
No need to tests anything (I am happy I can resume my current task).
yes
Brakes have been adjusted to match better real charts and all RCR
-
yes
Brakes have been adjusted to match better real charts and all RCR
So, is it possible what we’re feeling now is more realistic braking(Ie:before they were “overpowered”)?
-
So, is it possible what we’re feeling now is more realistic braking(Ie:before they were “overpowered”)?
That was my suspicion above, and the whole point of this post: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?40914-F16-Brakes-at-4-35&p=559903&viewfull=1#post559903
-
The Viper never had the worlds best brakes.
-
So which is the conclusion ?, it is the same now braking with or with not antiskid in a normal condition runway ?
It is the same because there is a small bug right now that will be fixed next update
-
It is the same because there is a small bug right now that will be fixed next update
So…what will be the difference after the update? Sorry but I am tumbleweed in this thread now.
-
Yeah it’s quite noticeable, in particular for low speeds, no more racing to parking. For my understanding, (I lack fancy rudder pedals) the manual speaks about anti skid behavior as function of the amount of toebrake applied:
ANTI-SKID functions are:
• Touchdown skid control that prevents brake application prior to wheel spin-up even if brake
pedals are depressed.
• Deceleration skid control (toe brakes engaged less than 85% of their course)
• Maximum performance skid control (toe brakes engaged more than 85% of their course)
• Failure detection of the braking protection systemIs the K-key the same as applying max performance skid control,I.e. 100% applied braking ?
-
As we’re on the topic of braking:
I’m using the “poor man’s rudder” function on my T500RS racing wheel pedals to steer the jet on the ground. I wonder if the axis could be mapped to “braking” instead with weight on wheels so one could brake differentially and / or steer the jet on the ground at the same time? Say both pedals are pressed -> act as differential brakes; only a single pedal pressed: Use the axis as NWS steering input. In the air without WOW, use the combined virtual rudder axis normally as rudder input.
Failing that, would it be possible to use the pedal’s brake axis for (obviously non-differential) brake input? Right now only the throttle and clutch pedals are used for “poor man’s rudder” with the brake axis going unused.
All the best,
uwe
-
Yeah it’s quite noticeable, in particular for low speeds, no more racing to parking. For my understanding, (I lack fancy rudder pedals) the manual speaks about anti skid behavior as function of the amount of toebrake applied:
Is the K-key the same as applying max performance skid control,I.e. 100% applied braking ?
K applies maximum brake performance but progressively
-
As we’re on the topic of braking:
I’m using the “poor man’s rudder” function on my T500RS racing wheel pedals to steer the jet on the ground. I wonder if the axis could be mapped to “braking” instead with weight on wheels so one could brake differentially and / or steer the jet on the ground at the same time? Say both pedals are pressed -> act as differential brakes; only a single pedal pressed: Use the axis as NWS steering input. In the air without WOW, use the combined virtual rudder axis normally as rudder input.
Failing that, would it be possible to use the pedal’s brake axis for (obviously non-differential) brake input? Right now only the throttle and clutch pedals are used for “poor man’s rudder” with the brake axis going unused.
All the best,
uwe
It should be possible with Joystick Gremlin.
-
I always thought that ABS prevents the wheels from locking up and has no affect on stopping distances on wet or dry surfaces… only the type of brakes for disc or drum braking affects that in regards to your speeds.
-
I always thought that ABS prevents the wheels from locking up and has no affect on stopping distances on wet or dry surfaces… only the type of brakes for disc or drum braking affects that in regards to your speeds.
Preventing the wheels from locking up drastically affects stopping distance on all surfaces.
Without ABS, it is not possible to maintain maximum braking effort over any useful duration. Professional drivers could maintain close to maximum braking effort with skill. Just planting your foot would make the wheels lock up, drastically decreasing braking effort and increasing stopping distance. Failing to apply sufficient pressure on the pedal also decreases braking effort, again increasing the stopping distance. A professional driver could maintain close to maximum braking effort by knowing how much pressure they can apply without causing the wheels to lock, gained from much experience.
ABS allows the computer to detect the onset of lockup, before wheel lock occurs, and decrease brake pressure accordingly. You get the maximum possible braking effort, and all you have to do is plant your foot. More brake pressure would lead to the wheels locking, decreasing braking effort. Less brake pressure would be also less braking effort.
Comparing ABS with no ABS, ABS decreases stopping distance. For professional drivers, ABS decreases stopping distance somewhat. For everyone else, ABS decreases stopping distance significantly.
-
Not sure it is implemented but catching the 1st wire is not what you are supposed to do. It is not the same as in a carrier and catching the wire above a given energy may destroy the cable and/or the hook.
Land normally, aiming the threshold to maximize the LDA, perform optimal aerobraking until 100Kts, then drop the nose, ensure then points contact and lower the hook soon enough before reaching the last wire to catch it a slow as possible.In the -1 it mentions in chapter 3.8.7 to land >500ft before the arresting system to ensure the NWS is down. I took it as must as the geometry of the hook on the plane might be just like that (you may need a “levelled” plane for the hook to catch the wire). Can someone confirm pls?
-
Preventing the wheels from locking up drastically affects stopping distance on all surfaces.
Without ABS, it is not possible to maintain maximum braking effort over any useful duration. Professional drivers could maintain close to maximum braking effort with skill. Just planting your foot would make the wheels lock up, drastically decreasing braking effort and increasing stopping distance. Failing to apply sufficient pressure on the pedal also decreases braking effort, again increasing the stopping distance. A professional driver could maintain close to maximum braking effort by knowing how much pressure they can apply without causing the wheels to lock, gained from much experience.
ABS allows the computer to detect the onset of lockup, before wheel lock occurs, and decrease brake pressure accordingly. You get the maximum possible braking effort, and all you have to do is plant your foot. More brake pressure would lead to the wheels locking, decreasing braking effort. Less brake pressure would be also less braking effort.
Comparing ABS with no ABS, ABS decreases stopping distance. For professional drivers, ABS decreases stopping distance somewhat. For everyone else, ABS decreases stopping distance significantly.
Thanks for the clarity Blu3wolf…
-
In the -1 it mentions in chapter 3.8.7 to land >500ft before the arresting system to ensure the NWS is down. I took it as must as the geometry of the hook on the plane might be just like that (you may need a “levelled” plane for the hook to catch the wire). Can someone confirm pls?
it’s jsut a bug
-
it’s jsut a bug
From non-carrier videos on youtube it seems that arresting systems are for AoA=0. If that is the case, one reason for requiring AoA=0 could be not to slam the front wheels down hard, which might happen for AoA>0. Navy gear might be robust enough for that, but maybe F-16 is more delicate. On the other hand, the non-carrier arresting systems seem to stop the aircraft over a longer distance than the carrier deck equivalent making for a softer braking effect.
-
In the -1 it mentions in chapter 3.8.7 to land >500ft before the arresting system to ensure the NWS is down. I took it as must as the geometry of the hook on the plane might be just like that (you may need a “levelled” plane for the hook to catch the wire). Can someone confirm pls?
On which airbase (?) do you have issues (and which arrestor cable) ?
-
On which airbase (?) do you have issues (and which arrestor cable) ?
I dont have any issues (atm). Just pointed out how it was mentioned in the -1 and that subjectively based on that info put my NWS down before reaching the cable. for the moment, all good and it worked out. Mav anyway pointed out that the bevaviour mentioned before seems to be a bug. all good.