BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal
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Ok, so I lied. One more update, for real this time
I was talking to someone on Discord about the AV8. While working on the Harrier is somewhat down the pipeline, The Mafia Files does now have a 3dbutton.dat that fixes the 4.35 hotspot issues. Itās in there under the title" 3dbuttons.dat (4.35 AV8 with restored jfs,llight,p.brk.)" -
Good Day, All,
The following is copied form my post in the "Looking for help in the AV-b " thread, and will be included in the Fighters Manual Tips and Tricks section
From the AV-8B NATOPS, our Manuals, and testingā¦- The V/STOL master mode of the Harrier is automatically engaged in BMS when the gear is down. (BMS Manual 8-87-8)
- The Cruise/STOL switch is modeled in BMS and automatically changes such things as LEF position.( UPDATE: Iām told the Harrier doesnāt have LEFās, so what the display changes is unclear)
- NATOPS tells of 10 deg. nozzle posit. at the start of the takeoff run, and also about the STO Stop switch. It lets you quickly go to the calculated correct nozzle posit.
- BMS does not have the STO Stop. But , the good news is there a way to emulate it.
- The issue of GWT in Harrier launched is spot on. In fact, 26K is a fairly hard limit for STO launch. Store drag does not seem to enter into it, so you can carry more stores if you offload fuel. One test was full load (see below) with 2k less fuel. That worked but combat radius was only about 130 miles on a tactical flight profile.
- The jet was tested with a loadout of 2 MavGās,2 AIM-120B, 2 AIM-9M, a TGP, and full fuel. That yielded a 25,989 GWT. 10-60 deg. nozzle positās and different weights were tested. It can be confirmed the procedures in the BMS Manuals do work. However, to be as true to NATOPS as possible, and from test results, the following procedure is offered.
A) Do the slow taxi toward spot 6, stopping the moment Ground starts speaking to switch to Tower.
B) Confirm Cruise/STOL switch is STOL
C) Nozzles to 10 deg. A convenient graphic is in the upper right corner showing posit.
D) When on Button 4 and given launch clearance, hold brakes hard on and advance to full throttle(the Harrier does not have afterburner), releasing brakes when the jet starts to overcome the brakes.
E) Hereās the tricky part, we have to emulate the STO Stop. You have to map the nozzle controls (increase and decrease) to either your HOTAS or a keyboard command easy to reach with your left hand. This is easy to do via the Alternate Launcher. One way to do that is as shifted functions āunderā the trim control on the stick. On the test rig every time the VTOL Inc control is hit, the nozzle posit. changes by 10 deg. If yourās is the same then just as you about to leave the deck, ābump itā 4 times to take you to 50 deg.
F) Hold about half back stick and get the gear up ASAP
G) From NATOPS"2. Set attitude
3. Nozzles ā gradually rotate the nozzles aft. Nozzle rotation rate should enable the aircraft to maintain a slight climb. (Maintain a nozzle angle of 25Ā° or greater while in STOL flaps)."
H) When in stable climb- Cruise/ STOL switch to cruise, nozzles to zero
And to follow, how to land the sucker on the Ship!
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I land in vtol mode.
Low fuel and no bombs -
I land in vtol mode.
Low fuel and no bombsExactly, Compadre . NATOPS straight up says do not attempt VTOL landings at high weight.
Plus, I was looking at the AV8ās 3dbut.dat and saw SimAltFlapsNorm -2.49529 1.218174 -2.894409 30 124 2
SimAltFlapsExtend -2.49529 1.218174 -2.894409 30 124 1
Do you think thatās the callbacks for the cruise/stol switch? Iād like to include the c/s switch into BMS-Full so we can map to HOTAS with AL, perhaps as a shifted function under our Hornet flaps -
_(cough, cough)_Please find the time to make some room in your PM boxes, fratello. (cough, cough)
Many tanks in advance and with best regards.
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_(cough, cough)_Please find the time to make some room in your PM boxes, fratello. (cough, cough)
Many tanks in advance and with best regards.
Your wish is my commandā¦
Done.
FYI, I just sent you a pm, will be testing the Nam TE tonight -
Got it, thanks.
Oh, that awesome tank effectā¦ 120mm. means so much, you know.
Beware of fuel management out there, fratelloā¦
Good luck!
With best regards.
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Joe/Gianni, Smartaxe just sent me an Installer for you know what. Public release happens once I get it uploaded to my Mediafire Account. I sent you guys a pm about the next project sitting on my shelf.
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Joe/Gianni, Smartaxe just sent me an Installer for you know what. Public release happens once I get it uploaded to my Mediafire Account. I sent you guys a pm about the next project sitting on my shelf.
Hi, Compadre. Downloading now, than Iāll start testing
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Joe, your mailbox is full.
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Joe, your mailbox is full.
It isnāt now-lol. In fact , I just sent you a pm
All, Hereās the Update for today, from another threadā¦
You should definitely try the Harrier, and the Mafia Files contains a 4.35 jfs, etc. fix. Just launching is a challenge, and donāt even get me started on VTOL landings. Thatās what makes BMS fun, right?
Iām currently floating an idea within the Mafia. In other threads we talked about whether having either austere stock pits or fully functional Viper (land-based jets) / Hornet (naval-based, except Harrier) . The response seemed to prefer the latter. I have asked our core group of theater Devs if that is something they would like the Mafia to do. The same has already been offered to the DEVās. What do you think?
As for the Harrier, I/we will be giving it some love. Also, BTW, the F-35B is kind of a pet project, too.
Iāve also been thinking about the Harrierās launch procedure Iāve come up with a āSTO button emulatorā using Voice Attack. in the BMS-Full keyfile, shift+. is nozzle angle increase. I made a VA command that enters that 4 times pressing and holding 0.1 sec. each, and mapped that to my HOTAS. It works. For experimentation, I set it up with the NATOPS 10 deg. at start of takeoff rule, yielding 50 deg. when you āhit the buttonā. But, it could easily be adapted to starting at zero deg. When I have some time to test, Iām going to try the various 0 or 10 at start and 50 or 60 leaving the ramp -
Joe/Gianni, Smartaxe just sent me an Installer for you know what. Public release happens once I get it uploaded to my Mediafire Account. I sent you guys a pm about the next project sitting on my shelf.
Done, dearest bro, thanks for having told me this.
Deeply sorry for having answered so late, I was a little busy.
With best regards.
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Good Day, All,
We have been asked to give āsome Mafia Loveā to the Harrier and the Tornado cockpits. I took a long look at them last night, and have some thoughts Iād like to share and get the Groupās views on.
Option One- Tweak the stock pits. I know this is what our friends really want, so that is the WIP. Both pits need help, even to ramp start. So, work will be continuing, and I hope we can achieve our goals. It will be time well spent, as it includes procedures I havenāt learned but want to. So, it will be fun( in my crazy kind of way). However, as it will entail ā3-4 Mafia Weeksā, I thought Iād invest last night in other options.
And, soā¦
Option 2_ Voice Attack- Given our recent work with the Harrierās āSTO Button Emulatorā in VA, I thought about taking it further. With the Alt. Launcher itās easy to assign keyboard commands to a callback, and from there use VA. For example , both jets lack a jfs hotspot and other things needed to RAMP. So, say with AL you make jfs 2 shift+j in BMS-Full, then make a vocal command from that. I just did it with āStart 2ā and it works.
This would get people who want the stock pit in the air.
Would it be of use to the Group if I were to tweak my VA profile to fix the missing hotspots, then share that profile?? Itās a personal preference thing, if you want to tweak your own profile, itās fairly easy to do.
Option 3, otherwise known as āwhat I did last nightā- Plug in the Viper/Horent Pits
The Tornado was easy to drop the Viper pit into, using Section VII of the Fighters Manual. The wing model you want to end up with is 1196. It would also work with Mafia Pit, if you like. Lately, Iāve kind of been doing Viper for land based/MP for naval.
It took a bit more work to put the MP in the Harrier due to the lack of hotspots for nozzle lever and cruise/STOL switch. But, thanks to Brother Axe Tech Mafia mAN(hereby immortalized as BATMAN), we got it done.
In the Mafia Files there is now a folder ā4.35 AV8 with Mafia Pitā Put itās contents into 4.35>data>your theater>art>ckpitart> av8 folder, replacing what is there.
What it does 1) Puts THE MP in
2) changes wingmodel to a functional 607 ( thanks again, Brother Axe. That was making my head hurt)
3) Adds-SimAltFlapsNorm -1.88413 1.198688 -2.041121 30 311 1
SimAltFlapsExtend -1.88413 1.198688 -2.041121 30 311 2
It turns out Cruise/STOL cockpit switch controls something BMS-Full calls Alternate Flaps( I havenāt checked if thatās what theyāre called in the Harrier) The entry above puts it on the Flap switch hotspot in the MP(left click cruise/right click STOL). Donāt worry, the flaps still work in the F-18. One of my goals is to make a setup you can still use in different jets.
Nozzle posit. is easily set with AL. I have mine on Stick POV up/down for inc./dec. nozzle angle , with trim as shifted functions
I have our VA STO Emulator, mentioned previously, on Stick POV right. Of course, Noz. posit. and STO are purely personal preference. Have your own fun
Fortunately, the upper right corner display is still there to show Noz.posit. Also, Brother Stevie pointed out the Harrier doesnāt have LEFās. But, the āLEFā value is actually showing the Alternate Flap extension. So, if itās 0 deg. itās in Cruise, and 21 deg. is STOL.
So all this in place, youāre good to go.
Also as previously mentioned, I was going to do some takeoff testing with the Harrier. I " killed 2 birds with one stone" and combined it with MP cockpit testing. I found that I could get consistent take offs at a GWT of 26811 and a loadout of full fuel,4 Mav G, and 2 AIM-120B. , using the following procedureā¦- Cruise/STOL to STOL.
- When given taxi clearance , slow your taxi forward when you get close to Spot 6. You want to be as far aft as possible and still have the Tower call you. At my TIr settings, the ā6ā on the spot was just at the top of my instrument panel. Practice helps.
- Nozzle to 10 deg. down. Cancel NWS. When given takeoff clearance, hold brakes HARD and advance to full throttle, releasing the brakes as soon as the jet overcomes them
- When you cross the āpainted lineā for landing spot 1, hit your STO button
- The moment ( as in have your hand on the gear switch/lever) you leave the deck, gear up and pull about 15 deg. nose up.
- Once in positive climb, start cycling nozzles aft.
- When at nozzle 30 deg and established in climb C/S to Cruise. ( PER NATOPS, do not go below 25 deg. in STOL Mode). Continue nozzles aft to zero
Give it a try, and let me know what you think
Today, Iām finally going to learn how to land the Harrier. :shock: Or die repeatedly trying. Itās been nice knowing youā¦
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Update 2 for the dayā¦
Brother Jackal and I have been talking about putting together a section of tech. tips, flying procedures, tactical discussion, etc. For your inspection, now in the unzipped Mafia Files folder there is the BMS Fighters Manual, Volume 2:New Additions. Check it out, and let me know what you think about the format -
We talked about it.
You did it.
Thatās the way to make good things finally happen!
Great.
So, listen instead: what would you have liked to do to my personal birdieās cockpit, then? :dhorse:Gianni.
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I as well have been trying to land with the harrier, its very complex. Take off seems to be pretty easy once you know what your doing. I have managed to do a standard landing with the harrier but never a V/STOL one. My Standard landing was a bit rough as well lol. Harrier has a very different feel then the F16 so it takes a bit of getting use to. Also did you mean you were putting the F18 pit into the Harrier or did I misunderstand?
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Hi, Guys,
Jackal, Iāve already pmād you about your favorite bird.
Martin, Donāt feel bad. I had a quite interesting time last night trying, repeat trying , to land On the Boat. Itās that translation from hovering abeam the ship. Yikes. As my tweaked Harrier is currently in the Nevada theater, I made a quicky TE to replicate the training mission over in the KTO. I the author had the good idea to learn the hover over a land base to start.
Also, yes, Iāve put the modified Hornet pit we call the āMafia Pitā in the Harrier. -
Iāve got it, hermano, thanks a lot.
But thatās not the point still, Iām afraidā¦ you already know well that getting that same FF6 Tornado 2-seater cockpit in 3D is my ultimate goal.
Even we could do thatā¦ that would be a real godsend, do you agree? So, letās aim to that and talk about how, I guess.
With best regards.
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Iāve got it, hermano, thanks a lot.
But thatās not the point still, Iām afraidā¦ you already know well that getting that same FF6 Tornado 2-seater cockpit in 3D is my ultimate goal.
Even we could do thatā¦ that would be a real godsend, do you agree? So, letās aim to that and talk about how, I guess.
With best regards.
Hi, Compadre. As previously mentioned, work on the stock pit is still underway. So, that would be your ultimate solution. unless, youāre trying to make a pit with a human GIB(Guy In Back). Thatās been discussed a little in regards to the Tomcat,Phantom, even the Rhino-F(one of my personal āpetā birds) How to to that technically is well above my paygrade.
In fact , let me present that to the Group- IS that possible without code access?
All,
VTOL landing testing (aka:multiple aerial suicides) continues. Iām doing it in the Harrier and the F-35B. Itās my supposition that whoever set that bird up used tweaked Harrier data. That jet is interesting since with that afterburning engine, Iām getting easy take offs at 40K plus GWT. -
How to to that technically is well above my paygrade.
In fact , let me present that to the Group- IS that possible without code access?Not properlyā¦ but it could be done somewhat, without code access. Itās been discussed a bit, because of course it has.
The algorithm used for BMSā flight model (RK4) is susceptible to latency. Slowing down the framerate can severely affect the flight model performance. Internet latency is much higher again, and in practice any backseater would have to be āalong for the rideā because flight controls would diverge between the front seat guy and the back seat guy.
There was a released mod, really a concept, that showed how to get the back seater āalong for the rideā though.
I forget what they called it, something about rear seat instructorā¦ basically, you park your jet on the ground, and switch views to ānearby friendlyā until you are looking at your student. Then you use the ātop gunā camera views which are fixed to their fuselage (I suppose today, we would call them āgopro viewsā). The mod was just altering the default ātop gunā views to be from inside the stock D model cockpit, looking left, left ahead, right ahead, and right.
You could then use Lightnings MFD extractor to have guages sent by the student to you, so youād have gauge and MFD data from the student, and you could see what they are seeing, from the rear seat - but no flight control. Iāll have to see if I canāt find the thread.
Edit: Found it: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?15444-Two-Seater-F-16-DJ