Defeating the F-14 in BVR.
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Hey I am using Match Play - Ace - 30000ft - 55nm - 6 Radar Guided Missiles as my parameters to set up fights against a F-14B.
How the hell do I defeat this thing?
The classic crank till pitbull and then turning cold defense (like what the AI does in Offensive fire and Pump) doesn’t work because the missile hits you before you can obtain pitbull. Sometimes I even get a RWR warning for an incoming Aim-154 before I have fired my first missile.
How do y’all go about this fight?
(In the default F-16 that is of course) -
Hey I am using Match Play - Ace - 30000ft - 55nm - 6 Radar Guided Missiles as my parameters to set up fights against a F-14B.
How the hell do I defeat this thing?
The classic notch till pitbull and then turning cold defense (like what the AI does in Offensive fire and Pump) doesn’t work because the missile hits you before you can obtain pitbull. Sometimes I even get a RWR warning for an incoming Aim-154 before I have fired my first missile.
How do y’all go about this fight?
(In the default F-16 that is of course)As the Phoenix will outrange your AAMRAM simple as that don’t go into a BVR as Single Ship F-16
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As stated the Phoenix will out range you everytime. That’s a fight you aren’t likely to win on your own.
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LOL The Tomcat doing what the Tomcat do…
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As the Phoenix will outrange your AAMRAM simple as that don’t go into a BVR as Single Ship F-16
I wonder why US stopped using Phoenix. :noidea:
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I wonder why US stopped using Phoenix. :noidea:
I have served the Army for 15 years and as simple as that if a weapon system gets decommissioned without replacement first and foremost reason is
MONEY
second there is no more scenario that requires th need of a certain weapon system
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I have served the Army for 15 years and as simple as that if a weapon system gets decommissioned without replacement first and foremost reason is
MONEY
second there is no more scenario that requires th need of a certain weapon system
I see… Is it possible the missile is not that effective against modern aircraft/CMS anymore? I mean, the advantage in rage is so great that should worth the money, I guess.
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There are long range air missiles now we (public) don’t exactly know the performance of.
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I was hoping there is something I can do. Because a purely kinematic defeat I am having a hard time coming up with, maybe with some combination of ECM and chaff.
(In DCS (yeah I know…) the Aim-154 can be defeated by flying a 90 degree notch and dropping chaff, but I already had the suspicion that that was more for balance purposes that anything else).But if I get the definitive answer that the right thing is to turn around and leave I can accept that, too. I am just curious what the old guard thinks.
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I wonder why US stopped using Phoenix. :noidea:
My understanding is the F-14 was built to carry and launch the Phoenix … not sure any other planes ever did?
The mission was fleet defense … this was the era of the Exocet missile, which was largely defenseless at the time … so the idea was to be able to knock out bombers / attack aircraft before they could get within launch range.
Threats and defenses are just different now. The risk to carrier groups is probably more from cruise-missiles (air or land-launched) or short/medium range ballistic missiles.
The defense-in-depth is mostly provided by Aegis destroyers and CIWS
Hornets can still fly CAP armed with plenty of AIM-120s … but they’re a far more versatile / multi-role platform
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I wonder why US stopped using Phoenix. :noidea:
That at most of altitude in fact the AIM-54 does not outrange the AIM-120 only at very high altitude where the AIM-54 could act as a quasi ballistic missile.
Otherwise its drag was so huge that the powerful long burning engine simply wasted the energy to keep at very low speed the missile.The AIM-54 is almost closer to being “low drag” to an AGM-65 than even just compete with the AIM-7F.
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Hey I am using Match Play - Ace - 30000ft - 55nm - 6 Radar Guided Missiles as my parameters to set up fights against a F-14B.
How the hell do I defeat this thing?
The classic crank till pitbull and then turning cold defense (like what the AI does in Offensive fire and Pump) doesn’t work because the missile hits you before you can obtain pitbull. Sometimes I even get a RWR warning for an incoming Aim-154 before I have fired my first missile.
How do y’all go about this fight?
(In the default F-16 that is of course)Just fly below 12k feet and be surprised how easy is bleeding the speed of the AIM-54 following the RWR shows the direction of the AIM-54.
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You need to go low and pull several really hard turns (from radar gimbal limit to gimbal limit) while you get closer. Try not to black out.
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My understanding is the F-14 was built to carry and launch the Phoenix … not sure any other planes ever did?
Yes, but it didnt work out
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NASA did some Hypersonic testing and stuck one on an F-15B
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/history/pastprojects/Phoenix/phoenixmissile.html
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Yes, but it didnt work out
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7Igj9nPFBMc/W4G5NqUN-pI/AAAAAAAALmk/QpXlUuRSPc41LAbkK6VtxCtUS8_9Ce6lACLcBGAs/s1600/1%2B970%2Bwith%2BPhoenix%2Bswept%2Blightened.jpgAs an AIM-54 long range CAP platform in fact the F-111B would be superior compared to even F-14B considering range, CAP time and firepower.
To make the VFX doable many of the original req. was deleted compared to the TFX goals.- escape capsule was deleted
- less top speed was expected
- much less CAP time was expected (just compare the int- fuel qty of the F-111B and F-14, the F-14 has just a bit more than 1/3rd what F-111 had.
- internal weapon bay was deleted
Only problem as a classical fighter the F-111 was useless.
Also in AG role if the Navy ever wished to use that F-111B could be good. -
But no one remembers what could have been –- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_F6D_Missileer ?
This thread is definitely a 1v1 scenario where the smug AI in a mehcat gets an AIM-9 up its A.
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Dunno how well the Phoenix is modeled but I do know a couple things. It’s a very fast missile when the motor is running around Mach 5 so yes it has legs. It’s not the best at Maneuvering. Getting down into the low alts will help get it to slow down in the thicker air. Cranking and turning cold and hot to bait the 14 is really your only option. She is also a very good Dogfighter even for it’s size. If you ever make it to a merge force 2 circle fights. In BVR try and switch him to be defensive. You can take long shots and if he ignores it you might get a kill.
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Dunno how well the Phoenix is modeled but I do know a couple things. It’s a very fast missile when the motor is running around Mach 5 so yes it has legs.
Nope, this is just a legend. It had long legs because launching at 30k feet+ it was literally a quasi ballistic missile with terminal and mid phase course corrections.
Even launching at very high alt the missile barely reached M4.5.
At med alt. launch the burnout speed was not even M4.0 -
Going from the NASA Hypersonic test trajectory “theoretical” chart (presumably based on the AIM-54C shown on their F-15B) the missile needs to be launched at Mach 2 and 55,000ft where upon they think it hits Mach 5 for ~8 seconds and is above Mach 4.5 for a total of 50 seconds.
The AIM-54A has a quoted top speed of Mach 4.5 but the C models are given as Mach 5+……but you would think that 99% of the time the F-14 would never be high or fast enough to achieve that result anyway. The problems for both the missile and AWG-9 on the B should be ground clutter and chaff.