BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?
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@airtex2019 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
I think the question is, does BMS min-require 4Gb of dedicated video ram … or should this work, and there’s a leak somewhere (eg. managing texture memory as it loads from system ram to video ram).
I don’t know enough about the DirectX programming model, to comment intelligently … is there even an opportunity for such a leak in BMS code – or does DX library manage all the texture-memory swapping between system ram and video ram?
BMS Engine doesn’t leak texture memory. If it would I believe we would know for sure (Our Dev version uses much more texture memory and it’s loading/unloading fine )
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@MaxWaldorf Jesus , I’ve never seen pagefile at 100% and that 17GB’s… - that’s double the ram , even hiberfile would be, what, 8GB’s
What’s the load? OS and BMS only?? - not so sure
While he could do some “housekeeping” and disable backgroud apps/services before play … you know , make a batch “sc stop …” , “taskkill …”
… - maybe , just maybe -
@white_fang yeah who knows what is leaking … without seeing the working-set and commit-charge from FalconBMS.exe it’s hard to comment further.
Is there a way to reduce / constrain the GPU ram, for testing purposes? Surely there must be… but it seems a hard thing to google for.
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There is a memory leak related to new refueling code, although it is not very serious (happens on aggregation of tanker flights). So unless you are experiencing this kind of situation (agging deagging tankers several times), either this is something new we have not detected or something wrong on your system. Hard to say.
In any case, this leak I mentioned is fixed for 4.36.1.
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Depends… I was on a 4GB ram laptop on windows 10 for many years and working office apps and gfx like corel and photoshop for “light” gfx and even standart video editing…
I’m not saying 4GB is ok for BMS, just saying that you can strip down windows 10 to save resources and memory usage and avoid the 4-6GB eaten by OS on just running the OS.
It’s not that easy or straigth foreward but it’s doable if u invest the time and knowledge and experience on it. Small steps on it so not to get a non working OS. -
I’d say that this laptop - system doesn’t “quallify” for BMS running…
that simple. -
run TaskMgr during a long flight
Will do, thanks for the tips.
@I-Hawk said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
2GB may be the “announced VRAM”
It shows Display Memory (VRAM): 2010 MB and Shared Memory: 4036 MB.
Now 2010MB VRAM is simply not enough for BMS anymore?@white_fang said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
I’ve never seen pagefile at 100% and that 17GB’s
Any idea on what that means and why it’s using so much?
I’ll tune down everything I can graphics-wise and see if it helps. I’ve already closed every app running in the fore and background (even turning off the antivirus completely) besides anything essential for windows, but it didn’t seem to make any difference.@Arty said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
this laptop - system doesn’t “quallify” for BMS running
Sad. Up until the last version of 4.35 I could comfortably run OBS and record at 1080p 60fps while flying 4 hour long flights without ever having a memory issue in this same system. Now suddenly it’s unplayable even with the minimal and only necessary apps running in the background, right after a complete restart?
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@ArcherAC3 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
Now 2010MB VRAM is simply not enough for BMS anymore?
I must defer to BMS team to say what the minimum system requirements are. Both 4.35 and 4.36 seem to utilize about 3 Gb of video-ram. Add some padding for Windows and other apps … I’d say 4 Gb would probably be the “recommended” system requirement for dedicated video-ram.
With the added “shared” memory, it’s enough to run … it just becomes a performance drag (when the gpu has to pull textures from system memory, it’s much slower than the super-fast memory onboard the video card). Also it subtracts away from available system ram, which you need every bit of…
Any idea on what that means and why it’s using so much?
This is what a memory leak looks like, on a virtual memory operating system. It consumes all physical ram then spills over to fill up the pagefile.
But no idea who or what is responsible for the leak … which is why we need to see a little more data from TaskMgr to help solidify this. So far, nobody else is reporting this … and it could literally be anything … a buggy driver, a virus, some other software, whoknows.
I can believe you when you say 4.35 was ok and 4.36 is not … but I want to see the working-set and commit-charge numbers.
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@ArcherAC3 said in [BMS Crashes after time spent in flight -
@white_fang said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
I’ve never seen pagefile at 100% and that 17GB’s
Any idea on what that means and why it’s using so much?
I’ll tune down everything I can graphics-wise and see if it helps. I’ve already closed every app running in the fore and background (even turning off the antivirus completely) besides anything essential for windows, but it didn’t seem to make any difference.Last time I saw pagefile at 100% was in win98-xp era… Forgot how many years ago.
What it means is very possibly what @seifer said , memory leak.
Unless you don’t run photoshop with ultrahigh resolution image in the background., something is eating ram for breakfast.Eh, now , till today there is no easy way to see what is using pagefile. , you may see only overall usage. commit size under performance tab.
You may try “proces explorer” (sysinternals/microsoft) , need to enable some “memory” coulums (working set … etc)
See this:
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-blog-archive/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-virtual-memory/ba-p/723750Process details
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Again…
With no repro case, impossible to detect anything…
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@airtex2019 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
So far, nobody else is reporting this
I remembered I have an older laptop with nvidia optimus graphics… 4th gen i7 cpu + GT 750 gpu, also 2gb vram. But 16gb system ram. I dusted it off, updated Win10 and installed BMS 4.36 to give it a try.
I only flew for about 10 minutes… TR#3, starting in air, just cruising slow over south korea. The jet-engine noise coming from my laptop was very realistic, but I couldn’t lower the volume.
FalconBMS.exe process working-set seemed very stable at ~1170 Mb … commit-charge grew slowly, from ~5200 to 5309 Mb. That’s about 10 mb/min, which seems reasonable for loading new textures while cruising over Kunsan and nearby cities. Far short of the ~100-200 mb/min your system was consuming.
Total commit-charge for the entire system was ~8.5 Gb … this was very clean Win10 with nothing else running, just TaskMgr. Total active memory in use was only ~4 Gb, so you could probably expect to get by with 8 Gb, enduring some occasional stutters due to hard-faults. But if it’s possible to buy a RAM upgrade for your laptop, to get 16 Gb, I’d recommend do it.
Don’t know if that will help or solve your leak though. I don’t know where to look next.
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Thank you all for the replies again.
As soon as I fly again I’ll run the TaskMgr as suggested and update you here.@airtex2019 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
a buggy driver, a virus, some other software, whoknows.
On my last flights I made sure nothing else (but TeamSpeak) was running and memory usage was at the lowest possible. Ran a few antivirus complete scans but nothing was ever found. I might completely format my system and reinstall Falcon soon just to be sure - also, there’s an upgrade to Windows 11 available for me. Compared to Windows 10, does 11 tends to use less memory and be more stable overall for BMS?
@airtex2019 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
But if it’s possible to buy a RAM upgrade for your laptop, to get 16 Gb
I’m not completely sure yet it’s possible to upgrade the RAM on this laptop, but if so I’ll do it pretty soon. Not really in a position to build a proper rig now, but this Laptop seemed pretty stable to run BMS so far (albeit not at the best graphical settings and performance)
Thanks again!
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@ArcherAC3 Is the BMS
Config set to use hires textures or lowres? -
@ArcherAC3 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
It shows Display Memory (VRAM): 2010 MB and Shared Memory: 4036 MB.
Now 2010MB VRAM is simply not enough for BMS anymore?2GB is nothing for texture memory yes. Here is Dev version VRAM usage:
Yes that’s ~7GB. So you can consider 2GB as “very low”. Show me any full game/sim around that is using less than 4-5GB.
Regarding leaks, guys please stop speculating, if BMS had a SERIOUS leak we would know about it and fix it already, I’m 100% sure that BMS has SOME leaks, but those aren’t critical and happen mostly probably at entry/exit to sim or 3D. But not of those are critical, because if they were, we would know.
BMS code is getting better and safer with the years regarding memory allocations, so chances for new leaks are really low, if there are any existing leaks they are probably there since long time and so nothing that could cause a crash.
@ArcherAC3 your case is simple: Texture memory has no more room, the meaning is that the system cannot allocate new textures, that will cause a crash eventually with any app/system. You need more VRAM.
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@ArcherAC3 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
Compared to Windows 10, does 11 tends to use less memory
I don’t know of any real-world benchmarks to point to, but min sys req for Win10 (x64) is 2Gb RAM… Win11 is 4Gb. So, probably not a good idea without a RAM upgrade first.
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@Dee-Jay The “High Resolution Textures” box is not checked; the Low Resolution for Clouds and Reduce Particle System are checked though.
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@I-Hawk I’m NOT pushing leak or BMS issue, if any. But how to explain 17GB’s pagefile , OP case ??
His casio have 8GB’s ram , which is enough for win10… , add bms + textures (low res) in the pot … , shouldn’t exceed that much…Something is or in background, laptops can have many OEM bloatwares, or … dunno…
That will need to see Perfmon ram before and after. … or “newer”
Resource Monitor…See… total 32 , win10 in idle use ~4GB + ~4GB cached (actually, firefox running, add 500MB)
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@I-Hawk I can add to this, I have never seen .36 go over 6gb’s and I do not ever restart bms, I’ve been told to do it in .35 due to crashes but never experienced those either.
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I can’t find my post for performance and windows services to stop to increase system performance. links in my hotlist are broken probably from the forum update…
But I found this nice link in the internet.
https://www.pcerror-fix.com/windows-10-services-to-disable-for-gamingit’s not a life saver and please don’t stop all of them.
Go - read one by one what they are for. You might not need them for BMS but you might need them for normal use, so to be able to identify them and restart them in case u need them.
What I was doing always was a list in excel with service name and state before I disable them.It’s not gonna give you much but will let your system breath more and you might actually have a big difference in the lows, meaning when your system was on it’s knees.
Oh I like it so much when I use all this tech terminology… lolas I mentioned already I used a 4GB laptop for years doing serious office work for years.
Besides the unneeded stopped services GameBooster 3.5 saved the day running it - activating game mode when system got in the ui.
I know gameboster 3.5 is way old but it runs on wndows 10 and doesn’t need an account.
latest version might be better, never tried it as 3.5 did the work and i keep it like that, simple.
Hope those will help you but for sure you will learn much for your system as all flight simmers that don’t want to spend zillion of money and fight beasts when their expensive system is bottlenecked.
I’m proud till now to see waaaaaay newer computers suffer on performance while my i7 2600K has simmilar performance or a satisfactory performance with all on and a resolution of 5760x1200 on 3 monitors. and sad at the same time that guys spent their money and they have serious issues that the solution is on their reach but they don’t spent the time to isolate and solve the issues.
It’s not easy but it’s there in most of the times if hardware is not the issue.
OS and drivers are there for general use. We must learn as much as possible to master the actual operation and impact and address issues accordingly or gain performance by stopping apps and services that are not needed actually for BMS use, every bit of it…
On this quest the only factor is BMS gain and stability. If u go oh but I need this for that the other for xxx etc then u better put your hand in the pocket and go for a super trooper pc to save the trouble. Act as the setup is only for BMS since you want better results for this, and to squeeze every bit of resource the hw and os can give to it.
here is old GameBooster: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nf7pdg1qgoazvis/gb3-setup.7z/file -
@Arty Good tips, not just for gaming but for laptop battery life, when away from power cord.
Problem is it’s such a moving target … or, multiple moving targets – the OS evolves, apps and browsers evolve, and hardware evolves too. (I could probably make another list of 25 things to turn off or disable, and not overlap with that one at all.)
Eg. right now the biggest offenders I see, for RAM consumption, are things like Startup Boost in Edge which keep a loaded set of browser processes running, even after you shut it down. MS Office does this too… with its conspicuously named “OfficeClickToRun.exe” process. I suspect Google does this for Chrome, with its “GoogleCrashHandler.exe” processes, which curiously run all the time even with no browsers open.
These processes may appear to have low “private working-set” but if they share, or periodically load the startup exe/dlls into memory, it keeps them soft-faulted into virtual memory – thus avoiding the need for disk-access upon startup. But increasing overall memory pressure on the system. Normally you’d never notice… but if you’re playing a 6Gb flight sim on a 2 Gb OS on a PC with 8 Gb of RAM… suddenly it matters.
Once upon a time, I was a program manager for Windows tablet and laptop ecosystem … back when RAM was expensive and 1Gb systems were quite common. It was a constant struggle to get teams, internal and external, to not greedily consume all RAM just to make their apps startup quicker.
SSDs were expensive then too, so admittedly, sneaky tricks like this made a hugely noticeable difference. Now super-fast M.2 SSDs are the norm… but RAM is also cheap and plentiful too… so it appears many developers still do this.
Anyway… that was a past life for me. Nowadays I just enjoy low RAM prices, pay a little extra $ for twice as much RAM as I ever think I’ll need, and focus on other problems.