BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?
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@I-Hawk I can add to this, I have never seen .36 go over 6gb’s and I do not ever restart bms, I’ve been told to do it in .35 due to crashes but never experienced those either.
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I can’t find my post for performance and windows services to stop to increase system performance. links in my hotlist are broken probably from the forum update…
But I found this nice link in the internet.
https://www.pcerror-fix.com/windows-10-services-to-disable-for-gamingit’s not a life saver and please don’t stop all of them.
Go - read one by one what they are for. You might not need them for BMS but you might need them for normal use, so to be able to identify them and restart them in case u need them.
What I was doing always was a list in excel with service name and state before I disable them.It’s not gonna give you much but will let your system breath more and you might actually have a big difference in the lows, meaning when your system was on it’s knees.
Oh I like it so much when I use all this tech terminology… lolas I mentioned already I used a 4GB laptop for years doing serious office work for years.
Besides the unneeded stopped services GameBooster 3.5 saved the day running it - activating game mode when system got in the ui.
I know gameboster 3.5 is way old but it runs on wndows 10 and doesn’t need an account.
latest version might be better, never tried it as 3.5 did the work and i keep it like that, simple.
Hope those will help you but for sure you will learn much for your system as all flight simmers that don’t want to spend zillion of money and fight beasts when their expensive system is bottlenecked.
I’m proud till now to see waaaaaay newer computers suffer on performance while my i7 2600K has simmilar performance or a satisfactory performance with all on and a resolution of 5760x1200 on 3 monitors. and sad at the same time that guys spent their money and they have serious issues that the solution is on their reach but they don’t spent the time to isolate and solve the issues.
It’s not easy but it’s there in most of the times if hardware is not the issue.
OS and drivers are there for general use. We must learn as much as possible to master the actual operation and impact and address issues accordingly or gain performance by stopping apps and services that are not needed actually for BMS use, every bit of it…
On this quest the only factor is BMS gain and stability. If u go oh but I need this for that the other for xxx etc then u better put your hand in the pocket and go for a super trooper pc to save the trouble. Act as the setup is only for BMS since you want better results for this, and to squeeze every bit of resource the hw and os can give to it.
here is old GameBooster: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nf7pdg1qgoazvis/gb3-setup.7z/file -
@Arty Good tips, not just for gaming but for laptop battery life, when away from power cord.
Problem is it’s such a moving target … or, multiple moving targets – the OS evolves, apps and browsers evolve, and hardware evolves too. (I could probably make another list of 25 things to turn off or disable, and not overlap with that one at all.)
Eg. right now the biggest offenders I see, for RAM consumption, are things like Startup Boost in Edge which keep a loaded set of browser processes running, even after you shut it down. MS Office does this too… with its conspicuously named “OfficeClickToRun.exe” process. I suspect Google does this for Chrome, with its “GoogleCrashHandler.exe” processes, which curiously run all the time even with no browsers open.
These processes may appear to have low “private working-set” but if they share, or periodically load the startup exe/dlls into memory, it keeps them soft-faulted into virtual memory – thus avoiding the need for disk-access upon startup. But increasing overall memory pressure on the system. Normally you’d never notice… but if you’re playing a 6Gb flight sim on a 2 Gb OS on a PC with 8 Gb of RAM… suddenly it matters.
Once upon a time, I was a program manager for Windows tablet and laptop ecosystem … back when RAM was expensive and 1Gb systems were quite common. It was a constant struggle to get teams, internal and external, to not greedily consume all RAM just to make their apps startup quicker.
SSDs were expensive then too, so admittedly, sneaky tricks like this made a hugely noticeable difference. Now super-fast M.2 SSDs are the norm… but RAM is also cheap and plentiful too… so it appears many developers still do this.
Anyway… that was a past life for me. Nowadays I just enjoy low RAM prices, pay a little extra $ for twice as much RAM as I ever think I’ll need, and focus on other problems.
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sure plenty of ram is good.
BUT
not a total solution.
windows 10 and probably 11 doing a better job than 7 on resources usage but on the same time apps got more aggresive on resources and mem.
over the years many cases of unthinkable issues I have faced or seen as I’m sure many in this community that should be more experienced than me.
since win 10 and more dev detication I reduced my hunt for such issues and solutions.
Having a dry system having activated only what is needed for your BMS or in general flight sim operation is the best solution.
In the past when I was active at flying I had an SSD running windows only for Falcon. Nothing else.
Once I return back to flying I intent to do the same with windows 10.
By the passing of time we as computer users upgrade or add more applications. Having a separated install just for falcon saves you all the trouble… IIRC I had windows updates turned off and was using them only on everyday setup. once I was confident that the update or a new driver or app upgrade that was needed for falcon was ok with no issues then I upgraded on my flight setup. Always taking snapshots before any change just in case to be able to revert back to the stable setup.
In case I needed some extra software WDP MC or whatever I used my laptop with network links for folders etc to access the flight setup.
example MS win10 is ready to deploy a new upgrade to fix memory leaks among other things so windows 10 isn’t that wow of an OS still and superuser taking care is still needed specially in our case were resources on campaign can be drawn out in a snap… there your system and skills show how good it is… if it will have enough resources to cope with the load and offer you an acceptable experience and not crash or have pauses or whatever.
The parameters and options are so many that this jouerny seems like endless.
Many times I thought I had everything in order and then I discovered… ohhhh this is wrong, that’s what it does and this is how it should be setup… and not leave it on default.
Unfortunatelly there is no one ring to rule them all, every system is unique so this is a path that each one has to take on his system.The other way is ok spend 5K or more get the super trupper pc (only pc) with zilion cores 64+GB ram and 2x3090ti on sli and let’s see if we can get 1000fps on this thing to realize that in MSFS u r still on 20-40 fps… and you facepalm your self…
lol
sure in bms you will have nice 3 digits fps no matter what maybe but the cost is much and u have such power that you will never use actually and after a few years u will begin the quest for the next 5K setup…Edit: a simple thing to think… overclocking and issues… most say but I don’t overclock… well most now r on ddr4… just do a search what is the stock ddr4 speed and what is your actual system ddr4 speed… yes it’s already heavilly overclocked and you think everything is ok and smooth but why I get a crash that normally overclocked systems should?
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@Kevstosmart said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
@I-Hawk I can add to this, I have never seen .36 go over 6gb’s and I do not ever restart bms, I’ve been told to do it in .35 due to crashes but never experienced those either.
6GB of BMS makes perfect sense to cause his system to fail. Guys he only has 8GB RAM + 2GB VRAM. If you say BMS on your system is using 6GB at times, and I assume at least 2GB, that leave ~2GB of RAM for Win 10 and everything else, and no reserve for a case where VRAM is overloaded and need to take some RAM to survive.
And BTW 2GB VRAM isn’t even that, if you will check closely you’ll see that the VRAM can never really be entirely filled and there is always some usage even with no 3D app running.
8 + 2 isn’t enough to hold BMS 4.36, so it seems.
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@I-Hawk I believe this is cleared out, obvious, and well established.
whatever next to it is just chit chat and a blind shot in the dark.
Hope dies last.
Maybe some tricks could reduce the issue. not eliminate but reduce. -
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@I-Hawk I agree! I miss read I thought he had 16gbs
8gbs now a days is very tight in regards to have some headroom for applications. -
@Arty said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
I can’t find my post for performance and windows services to stop to increase system performance. links in my hotlist are broken probably from the forum update…
But I found this nice link in the internet.
https://www.pcerror-fix.com/windows-10-services-to-disable-for-gamingit’s not a life saver and please don’t stop all of them.
Go - read one by one what they are for. You might not need them for BMS but you might need them for normal use, so to be able to identify them and restart them in case u need them.
What I was doing always was a list in excel with service name and state before I disable them.It’s not gonna give you much but will let your system breath more and you might actually have a big difference in the lows, meaning when your system was on it’s knees.
Oh I like it so much when I use all this tech terminology… lolas I mentioned already I used a 4GB laptop for years doing serious office work for years.
Besides the unneeded stopped services GameBooster 3.5 saved the day running it - activating game mode when system got in the ui.
I know gameboster 3.5 is way old but it runs on wndows 10 and doesn’t need an account.
latest version might be better, never tried it as 3.5 did the work and i keep it like that, simple.
Hope those will help you but for sure you will learn much for your system as all flight simmers that don’t want to spend zillion of money and fight beasts when their expensive system is bottlenecked.
I’m proud till now to see waaaaaay newer computers suffer on performance while my i7 2600K has simmilar performance or a satisfactory performance with all on and a resolution of 5760x1200 on 3 monitors. and sad at the same time that guys spent their money and they have serious issues that the solution is on their reach but they don’t spent the time to isolate and solve the issues.
It’s not easy but it’s there in most of the times if hardware is not the issue.
OS and drivers are there for general use. We must learn as much as possible to master the actual operation and impact and address issues accordingly or gain performance by stopping apps and services that are not needed actually for BMS use, every bit of it…
On this quest the only factor is BMS gain and stability. If u go oh but I need this for that the other for xxx etc then u better put your hand in the pocket and go for a super trooper pc to save the trouble. Act as the setup is only for BMS since you want better results for this, and to squeeze every bit of resource the hw and os can give to it.
here is old GameBooster: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nf7pdg1qgoazvis/gb3-setup.7z/fileYeah, arty, 10 years ago, I’ve did it like this, the easiest way is to click and turn of one by one, but way soo many, for just a quick jump and play until I read a book about registry structure in windows. At those time, I got the book for windows XP, while at the same time, windows already evolve at seven. Though until now, the registry structure not changed much. I just remember at those time I did the same way just to do a musical production that involved 500 track at once. In my humble opinion, 8Gb of Ram for 4.36 is needed Upgrade tho. I’ve tested it a days before at my old machine ROG G73, and 4.36 utilize all the 8GB for just one flight at TE training ground ops at the lowest available setting. Compared to the 4.35, it is double size. So I think like this, if the minima for 4.35 is 8GB, I suggest you guys, get minima 16GB of ram for 4.36.
And, if our machine can’t get what 4.36 ask for, there always be the 4.35 ready to play. I can conform that at 4.35 U3, all high settings + OBS run in background with medium x264 encode, the game run smooth for a consecutive mission. But it different with the 4.36, one flight, the RAM already suffered, the FPS suffered, and, OBS also report dropped frame multiple time. That’s the different from 4.35 U3 to 4.36. And I do encourage to change the requirements device minimum for 4.36 into 16GB Ram minimum. Those who still use 8GB can jump into 4.35 U3.
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@I-Hawk … with all that fuss, … what a surprise…
I was looking at that mem stats, adn go to “adv setting/virtual mem” … then wtf… !!! , where is my page file ??I have 32GB ram… not too much, enough, … but what surprise was… win10 21h2 “MOVED” my pagefile to second nvme/ssd (sata3) , “D” drive AND enlarged it to 32GB.
Wow… what a surprise… no notice… nothing.
… before that upgrade pagefile was maybe? 8-16GB on “C” (sys/win) drive, … I never look at it , as “I have enough ram” , don’t bother.But now, … clearly even windows 10 wants more ram then 32GB.
I don’t know is that new “default” for windows, but this is first time I notice something like that.
I can’t grasp what would be the reason that “system managed” would do that.
Not that I care much , just seems out of ordinary. -
@white_fang People may disagree, and they have their reasons, but in the era of historically cheap RAM prices, I recommend disabling pagefile entirely.
It almost never makes sense that I would want an active page of memory to be written to disk, and discarded/reused…
The entire concept dates to a time when virtual-mem OS was running on earliest 32-bit chips … Intel 386 or 486, with 16MB (not GB, but MB!) of RAM
Reasons to keep it:
- you’re a driver developer and want OS to record better kernel-dumps during bluescreens
- you really do run heavy scientific / big-data analysis workloads that, by design, exercise all physical memory
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@airtex2019 All correct m8. I’m aware of that “eternal” discussion , pagefile or not. - dates somewhat , mostly from winXp era.
In '98 … you really needed it , since ram was limited then.Ones with more ram saying it is waste of space, and performance hit, since ram from disk…, with enough ram clearly no need for it…
Others says it is important for windows mechanics, addressing space, decay cache… etc, even with more then enough ram… just leave it to windows decision., or small size manually, … like 1GB.
All ok with that, personally I was using sizes 80% of ram, fixed, manually … and defragmented , - in one disk fragment, even gone that far
But this, above, what I saw blew my mind…
I never ran something what would require that much ram that pagefile would auto rise to 100% of ram, equally.
Clearly win10 also don’t need 64GB … what for??
Don’t know will I able forensically study the event , but an “educated” guess, it is some stupid algorithm in question.Now, stubborn as always , I’ll just disable it alltogether and see what happens.
- I BET YOU HAVEN’T KNOW THIS:
https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/109733-huge-pagefile-post1367914.html#post1367914
The pagefile size can increase to the the size of your RAM after a system crash if your pagefile size is automatically set. For the next 4 weeks after a crash, the system managed page file will have a minimum size at least the size of the amount of ram in the system - 16GB in my case. Delete the key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CrashControl\LastCrashTime and the page file will revert to its former System Managed size - 2432MB in my case .I hope this tip helps anyone mystified by the same issue.
- I BET YOU HAVEN’T KNOW THIS:
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@white_fang disabling the pagefile is an old performance trick, BUT for systems that operation will never exceed the ram.
if it does u get an instant crash iirc.
this was like when ppl was starting to have 16 GB when 8GB was more than enough, now maybe for 64GB.
pagefile is needed in general and at the end is a good thing to have for stability.
The norm for pagefile was double the ram on your system.Another trick was to have pagefile on ramdrive… example 64 gb ram and set the 32 gb for pagefile… hehe… super fast… though kinda stupid…
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@white_fang yes, if in doubt, set it to a fixed/maximum size, eg 1000 Mb…
definitely the last thing you want is OS to decide it needs to dynamically grow the pagefile (and fragment it!) at the precise moment your system is under heavy memory pressure…
Others says it is important for windows mechanics, addressing space, decay cache
I know of no such arguments. For laptops, if you like to use Hibernation sleep state … it can amortize the time to write pages to disk. (Pages backed by pagefile.sys don’t need to be written to hiberfil.sys)
Also, people forget that even without a pagefile, there is some elasticity in virtual memory mapping – any file opened as readonly/shareable, is itself a “mini-pagefile”. Things like EXE and DLL files… images, font files, other resources, are all typically loaded this way. If loaded from a fixed/system drive, anyway. You’ll notice the size of an EXE doesn’t typically contribute or correspond to a process’s “private working set” metric. This is why.
So, some disk-I/O can still occur, as memory pressure grows. But hardly noticeable – for existing files, obvs it’s read-I/O, never write-I/O.
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@Arty said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
if it does u get an instant crash iirc.
There is a desktop popup alert when running low on ram… I think when hitting about 80%, don’t remember. But yes, when exceeding 100% commit-charge, stuff will start to fail with out-of-memory exceptions.
This can/will happen eventually, anyway, in the event of a leak… only difference is your system will remain snappy and responsive, up until the crash – instead of grinding to a crawl, swapping memory for disk constantly.
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Hello to you I also had the same crash on June 10 during a multi flight.
I was in the landing phase.
The memory window appeared for a few seconds then Falcon crashed, I also have a text file but no .dmp (0 bytes)
My setup is:
W11(64bit)
16gb
nvidea 1060 with 6gb
a Ryzen 5 3600Xhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/qa91nfqh74rcw52/2022-06-10_212815_crash.txt?dl=0
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@airtex2019 Ha m8, tho that’s all valid, but since SDD/NVME (chip drives) hard drive fragmentation is hardly an issue anymore… we’re not dealing with mechanical heads jumping to different sector positions… it is all “electronic”-al now. - we’re talking about nanoseconds now (similar to ram, still bit slower ) but not microseconds as with electromagnetic-mechanical drives.
…decreasing ssd life is another thing ,… would need to measure first how much time pagefile is actually written per time, number of access writes…
It would be stupid , well, for me, for expensive nvme (pciex) drive , to get its life reduced because of pagefile on a daily basis …
BMS is ok , I can (want to) take that ,… but with pagefile on daily basis… sorry windows , we’re not that “good friends”Your advice is just as fine, and yes, pagefile is pretty much what you’ve described, memory backup, … set it to fixed size 1024MB … even on sys/win ssd disk … it is already used daily , can’t avoid it, so, fine.
That what windows want reserve of ram backupped in file for dump analysis is not my problem… I’m an user … I ain’t gonna beta/debug your corporative (but necessary) junk … I ain’t a voluntary beta-tester, I paid for product and want it to deliver. - not to “test drive” your flu-shots on me/my system. - you want it debugged, fine, hire workers, pay them - but do not force end users in so-called voluntary crap… that is heist of century… and for people “without heads”
(kind of a rant here, maybe even oftopic, but uh… its all true)Cheers
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Update from my last multiplayer campaign flight.
Again, it crashed on the way back at approximately 01:40 hours from getting into the pit (3D). I can confirm the crash always happens when Page File gets to 100% (of my total 17.1GB available), showing 0MB left.
I was monitoring total RAM usage, page file (called “commited” in the Task Manager Performance tab), BMS memory commit size and GPU usage.
For reference then:
- Joining 3D: 6.5GB Total RAM | 5.7GB BMS Commit size (note, I did recon both Kunsan and the Target area prior to commiting, increasing RAM usage and Pagefile already)
- At EOR Kunsan (16:20 minutes elapsed): 6.9 Total RAM | 6.1 BMS Commit | 10.1 total Pagefile
- At Rejoin (24 minutes): 7.3 Total RAM | 6.8 BMS Commit (using 2.0 GB GPU)
- 45 minutes: 6.6 Total RAM (so, RAM usage decreased as soon as we left Kunsan, increasing to ~94% at most when GPU usage was way up there) | 8.2 BMS Commit | 13.4 total Pagefile)
- 1 Hour 10 minutes: 10.9 BMS Commit | 14.7 Pagefile
- 1 Hour 15 minutes: 15.2 Pagefile (GPU at 86%), total RAM 6.6
- Approach (01:36:30): 7.1 Total RAM | 13.4 BMS Commit size (didn’t get total pagefile, but was getting the blue message already)
- Crash (01:38:52): at 100% Pagefile (17.1GB)
So, while RAM would vary between 75 - 95% depending on the amount of units and objects nearby, just as GPU would go from ~85% to 100%, the Pagefile kept increasing non-stop (at a possible constant rate?) since I joined 3D.
Should my Pagefile be increasing like this? To be honest, I’m not even completely sure what Pagefile really is and it’s usage, but wouldn’t it be possible to unload whatever is loading it while I’m flying?Otherwise, we are always flying on limited time if it only goes up, being only a matter of time until it definitively crashes based on how much Page File you have available.Thanks again for all the help and suggestions!
Cheers, Archer -
@ertiyu said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
The memory window appeared for a few seconds then Falcon crashed
Do you remember if it also showed 100% (or a ridiculously high number) of Pagefile usage?
Edit: Ah, nevermind, your crashlog does confirm it, showing 5MB of pagefile left, probably the same that’s happening to me.I’ll have to fire up 4.35 again and check how my Pagefile behaves. The only time I had a blue memory warning back then was in day 1 of a campaign, with ground units and air gorilla in the 3D bubble (even other members in the flight reported low FPS), but it DID NOT result in a crash even then.
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@ArcherAC3 You are experiencing a memory leak … about 50 to 85 Mb / min, sounds like.
Not everybody is experiencing this, so… the next step is still to narrow down possible causes.
Yes, fly again on 4.35.3 with your same OS and software environment. (I realize it takes about 30 min to see the significant increase in FalconBMS.exe commit size.)
Maybe also try a long single-player mission on 4.36, to see if MP is a contributing factor…
At some point you mentioned OBS? That is probably the only other thing I can think of, that could possibly leak memory at 50-100 Mb/min. (Does it record at the system level, or does it inject itself into FalconBMS.exe to capture frames as they’re presented… I don’t know. But it’s on the shortlist of suspects in this case.)
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@airtex2019 Hmm… where’s the biggest mem impact? = Graphics./ Textures
He has 2GB of chip vram , the rest of used vram is shared with system ram… so , it might happen that even some part of vram gets into pagefile ?? … streched/longshot… and crazy, but still maybe?
Long story short… So , the GPU driver/app part which controls sharing ram with system may be leaking … as all sort of crap is going on/…
In essence:
System ram is getting paged, … Vram is shared with system … then windows page that system portion of vram …But… beating a pretty much a dead horse. Needs more RAM , as conviced by Max and Hawk , case closed.
What can try , is max out pagefile , fixed , to eg 32GB or even 64GB … just for the test… once… see if it fills again then…
That will get us some time before crashing.