BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?
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@I-Hawk I believe this is cleared out, obvious, and well established.
whatever next to it is just chit chat and a blind shot in the dark.
Hope dies last.
Maybe some tricks could reduce the issue. not eliminate but reduce. -
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@I-Hawk I agree! I miss read I thought he had 16gbs
8gbs now a days is very tight in regards to have some headroom for applications. -
@Arty said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
I can’t find my post for performance and windows services to stop to increase system performance. links in my hotlist are broken probably from the forum update…
But I found this nice link in the internet.
https://www.pcerror-fix.com/windows-10-services-to-disable-for-gamingit’s not a life saver and please don’t stop all of them.
Go - read one by one what they are for. You might not need them for BMS but you might need them for normal use, so to be able to identify them and restart them in case u need them.
What I was doing always was a list in excel with service name and state before I disable them.It’s not gonna give you much but will let your system breath more and you might actually have a big difference in the lows, meaning when your system was on it’s knees.
Oh I like it so much when I use all this tech terminology… lolas I mentioned already I used a 4GB laptop for years doing serious office work for years.
Besides the unneeded stopped services GameBooster 3.5 saved the day running it - activating game mode when system got in the ui.
I know gameboster 3.5 is way old but it runs on wndows 10 and doesn’t need an account.
latest version might be better, never tried it as 3.5 did the work and i keep it like that, simple.
Hope those will help you but for sure you will learn much for your system as all flight simmers that don’t want to spend zillion of money and fight beasts when their expensive system is bottlenecked.
I’m proud till now to see waaaaaay newer computers suffer on performance while my i7 2600K has simmilar performance or a satisfactory performance with all on and a resolution of 5760x1200 on 3 monitors. and sad at the same time that guys spent their money and they have serious issues that the solution is on their reach but they don’t spent the time to isolate and solve the issues.
It’s not easy but it’s there in most of the times if hardware is not the issue.
OS and drivers are there for general use. We must learn as much as possible to master the actual operation and impact and address issues accordingly or gain performance by stopping apps and services that are not needed actually for BMS use, every bit of it…
On this quest the only factor is BMS gain and stability. If u go oh but I need this for that the other for xxx etc then u better put your hand in the pocket and go for a super trooper pc to save the trouble. Act as the setup is only for BMS since you want better results for this, and to squeeze every bit of resource the hw and os can give to it.
here is old GameBooster: https://www.mediafire.com/file/nf7pdg1qgoazvis/gb3-setup.7z/fileYeah, arty, 10 years ago, I’ve did it like this, the easiest way is to click and turn of one by one, but way soo many, for just a quick jump and play until I read a book about registry structure in windows. At those time, I got the book for windows XP, while at the same time, windows already evolve at seven. Though until now, the registry structure not changed much. I just remember at those time I did the same way just to do a musical production that involved 500 track at once. In my humble opinion, 8Gb of Ram for 4.36 is needed Upgrade tho. I’ve tested it a days before at my old machine ROG G73, and 4.36 utilize all the 8GB for just one flight at TE training ground ops at the lowest available setting. Compared to the 4.35, it is double size. So I think like this, if the minima for 4.35 is 8GB, I suggest you guys, get minima 16GB of ram for 4.36.
And, if our machine can’t get what 4.36 ask for, there always be the 4.35 ready to play. I can conform that at 4.35 U3, all high settings + OBS run in background with medium x264 encode, the game run smooth for a consecutive mission. But it different with the 4.36, one flight, the RAM already suffered, the FPS suffered, and, OBS also report dropped frame multiple time. That’s the different from 4.35 U3 to 4.36. And I do encourage to change the requirements device minimum for 4.36 into 16GB Ram minimum. Those who still use 8GB can jump into 4.35 U3.
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@I-Hawk … with all that fuss, … what a surprise…
I was looking at that mem stats, adn go to “adv setting/virtual mem” … then wtf… !!! , where is my page file ??I have 32GB ram… not too much, enough, … but what surprise was… win10 21h2 “MOVED” my pagefile to second nvme/ssd (sata3) , “D” drive AND enlarged it to 32GB.
Wow… what a surprise… no notice… nothing.
… before that upgrade pagefile was maybe? 8-16GB on “C” (sys/win) drive, … I never look at it , as “I have enough ram” , don’t bother.But now, … clearly even windows 10 wants more ram then 32GB.
I don’t know is that new “default” for windows, but this is first time I notice something like that.
I can’t grasp what would be the reason that “system managed” would do that.
Not that I care much , just seems out of ordinary. -
@white_fang People may disagree, and they have their reasons, but in the era of historically cheap RAM prices, I recommend disabling pagefile entirely.
It almost never makes sense that I would want an active page of memory to be written to disk, and discarded/reused…
The entire concept dates to a time when virtual-mem OS was running on earliest 32-bit chips … Intel 386 or 486, with 16MB (not GB, but MB!) of RAM
Reasons to keep it:
- you’re a driver developer and want OS to record better kernel-dumps during bluescreens
- you really do run heavy scientific / big-data analysis workloads that, by design, exercise all physical memory
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@airtex2019 All correct m8. I’m aware of that “eternal” discussion , pagefile or not. - dates somewhat , mostly from winXp era.
In '98 … you really needed it , since ram was limited then.Ones with more ram saying it is waste of space, and performance hit, since ram from disk…, with enough ram clearly no need for it…
Others says it is important for windows mechanics, addressing space, decay cache… etc, even with more then enough ram… just leave it to windows decision., or small size manually, … like 1GB.
All ok with that, personally I was using sizes 80% of ram, fixed, manually … and defragmented , - in one disk fragment, even gone that far
But this, above, what I saw blew my mind…
I never ran something what would require that much ram that pagefile would auto rise to 100% of ram, equally.
Clearly win10 also don’t need 64GB … what for??
Don’t know will I able forensically study the event , but an “educated” guess, it is some stupid algorithm in question.Now, stubborn as always , I’ll just disable it alltogether and see what happens.
- I BET YOU HAVEN’T KNOW THIS:
https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/109733-huge-pagefile-post1367914.html#post1367914
The pagefile size can increase to the the size of your RAM after a system crash if your pagefile size is automatically set. For the next 4 weeks after a crash, the system managed page file will have a minimum size at least the size of the amount of ram in the system - 16GB in my case. Delete the key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\CrashControl\LastCrashTime and the page file will revert to its former System Managed size - 2432MB in my case .I hope this tip helps anyone mystified by the same issue.
- I BET YOU HAVEN’T KNOW THIS:
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@white_fang disabling the pagefile is an old performance trick, BUT for systems that operation will never exceed the ram.
if it does u get an instant crash iirc.
this was like when ppl was starting to have 16 GB when 8GB was more than enough, now maybe for 64GB.
pagefile is needed in general and at the end is a good thing to have for stability.
The norm for pagefile was double the ram on your system.Another trick was to have pagefile on ramdrive… example 64 gb ram and set the 32 gb for pagefile… hehe… super fast… though kinda stupid…
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@white_fang yes, if in doubt, set it to a fixed/maximum size, eg 1000 Mb…
definitely the last thing you want is OS to decide it needs to dynamically grow the pagefile (and fragment it!) at the precise moment your system is under heavy memory pressure…
Others says it is important for windows mechanics, addressing space, decay cache
I know of no such arguments. For laptops, if you like to use Hibernation sleep state … it can amortize the time to write pages to disk. (Pages backed by pagefile.sys don’t need to be written to hiberfil.sys)
Also, people forget that even without a pagefile, there is some elasticity in virtual memory mapping – any file opened as readonly/shareable, is itself a “mini-pagefile”. Things like EXE and DLL files… images, font files, other resources, are all typically loaded this way. If loaded from a fixed/system drive, anyway. You’ll notice the size of an EXE doesn’t typically contribute or correspond to a process’s “private working set” metric. This is why.
So, some disk-I/O can still occur, as memory pressure grows. But hardly noticeable – for existing files, obvs it’s read-I/O, never write-I/O.
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@Arty said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
if it does u get an instant crash iirc.
There is a desktop popup alert when running low on ram… I think when hitting about 80%, don’t remember. But yes, when exceeding 100% commit-charge, stuff will start to fail with out-of-memory exceptions.
This can/will happen eventually, anyway, in the event of a leak… only difference is your system will remain snappy and responsive, up until the crash – instead of grinding to a crawl, swapping memory for disk constantly.
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Hello to you I also had the same crash on June 10 during a multi flight.
I was in the landing phase.
The memory window appeared for a few seconds then Falcon crashed, I also have a text file but no .dmp (0 bytes)
My setup is:
W11(64bit)
16gb
nvidea 1060 with 6gb
a Ryzen 5 3600Xhttps://www.dropbox.com/s/qa91nfqh74rcw52/2022-06-10_212815_crash.txt?dl=0
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@airtex2019 Ha m8, tho that’s all valid, but since SDD/NVME (chip drives) hard drive fragmentation is hardly an issue anymore… we’re not dealing with mechanical heads jumping to different sector positions… it is all “electronic”-al now. - we’re talking about nanoseconds now (similar to ram, still bit slower ) but not microseconds as with electromagnetic-mechanical drives.
…decreasing ssd life is another thing ,… would need to measure first how much time pagefile is actually written per time, number of access writes…
It would be stupid , well, for me, for expensive nvme (pciex) drive , to get its life reduced because of pagefile on a daily basis …
BMS is ok , I can (want to) take that ,… but with pagefile on daily basis… sorry windows , we’re not that “good friends”Your advice is just as fine, and yes, pagefile is pretty much what you’ve described, memory backup, … set it to fixed size 1024MB … even on sys/win ssd disk … it is already used daily , can’t avoid it, so, fine.
That what windows want reserve of ram backupped in file for dump analysis is not my problem… I’m an user … I ain’t gonna beta/debug your corporative (but necessary) junk … I ain’t a voluntary beta-tester, I paid for product and want it to deliver. - not to “test drive” your flu-shots on me/my system. - you want it debugged, fine, hire workers, pay them - but do not force end users in so-called voluntary crap… that is heist of century… and for people “without heads”
(kind of a rant here, maybe even oftopic, but uh… its all true)Cheers
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Update from my last multiplayer campaign flight.
Again, it crashed on the way back at approximately 01:40 hours from getting into the pit (3D). I can confirm the crash always happens when Page File gets to 100% (of my total 17.1GB available), showing 0MB left.
I was monitoring total RAM usage, page file (called “commited” in the Task Manager Performance tab), BMS memory commit size and GPU usage.
For reference then:
- Joining 3D: 6.5GB Total RAM | 5.7GB BMS Commit size (note, I did recon both Kunsan and the Target area prior to commiting, increasing RAM usage and Pagefile already)
- At EOR Kunsan (16:20 minutes elapsed): 6.9 Total RAM | 6.1 BMS Commit | 10.1 total Pagefile
- At Rejoin (24 minutes): 7.3 Total RAM | 6.8 BMS Commit (using 2.0 GB GPU)
- 45 minutes: 6.6 Total RAM (so, RAM usage decreased as soon as we left Kunsan, increasing to ~94% at most when GPU usage was way up there) | 8.2 BMS Commit | 13.4 total Pagefile)
- 1 Hour 10 minutes: 10.9 BMS Commit | 14.7 Pagefile
- 1 Hour 15 minutes: 15.2 Pagefile (GPU at 86%), total RAM 6.6
- Approach (01:36:30): 7.1 Total RAM | 13.4 BMS Commit size (didn’t get total pagefile, but was getting the blue message already)
- Crash (01:38:52): at 100% Pagefile (17.1GB)
So, while RAM would vary between 75 - 95% depending on the amount of units and objects nearby, just as GPU would go from ~85% to 100%, the Pagefile kept increasing non-stop (at a possible constant rate?) since I joined 3D.
Should my Pagefile be increasing like this? To be honest, I’m not even completely sure what Pagefile really is and it’s usage, but wouldn’t it be possible to unload whatever is loading it while I’m flying?Otherwise, we are always flying on limited time if it only goes up, being only a matter of time until it definitively crashes based on how much Page File you have available.Thanks again for all the help and suggestions!
Cheers, Archer -
@ertiyu said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
The memory window appeared for a few seconds then Falcon crashed
Do you remember if it also showed 100% (or a ridiculously high number) of Pagefile usage?
Edit: Ah, nevermind, your crashlog does confirm it, showing 5MB of pagefile left, probably the same that’s happening to me.I’ll have to fire up 4.35 again and check how my Pagefile behaves. The only time I had a blue memory warning back then was in day 1 of a campaign, with ground units and air gorilla in the 3D bubble (even other members in the flight reported low FPS), but it DID NOT result in a crash even then.
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@ArcherAC3 You are experiencing a memory leak … about 50 to 85 Mb / min, sounds like.
Not everybody is experiencing this, so… the next step is still to narrow down possible causes.
Yes, fly again on 4.35.3 with your same OS and software environment. (I realize it takes about 30 min to see the significant increase in FalconBMS.exe commit size.)
Maybe also try a long single-player mission on 4.36, to see if MP is a contributing factor…
At some point you mentioned OBS? That is probably the only other thing I can think of, that could possibly leak memory at 50-100 Mb/min. (Does it record at the system level, or does it inject itself into FalconBMS.exe to capture frames as they’re presented… I don’t know. But it’s on the shortlist of suspects in this case.)
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@airtex2019 Hmm… where’s the biggest mem impact? = Graphics./ Textures
He has 2GB of chip vram , the rest of used vram is shared with system ram… so , it might happen that even some part of vram gets into pagefile ?? … streched/longshot… and crazy, but still maybe?
Long story short… So , the GPU driver/app part which controls sharing ram with system may be leaking … as all sort of crap is going on/…
In essence:
System ram is getting paged, … Vram is shared with system … then windows page that system portion of vram …But… beating a pretty much a dead horse. Needs more RAM , as conviced by Max and Hawk , case closed.
What can try , is max out pagefile , fixed , to eg 32GB or even 64GB … just for the test… once… see if it fills again then…
That will get us some time before crashing. -
@white_fang just to be clear, I’m not trying to convince Max and Hawk that they have a bug. I hope it’s not true … I wouldn’t know where to begin to tell them to look, if it is.
I’m just trying to help a fellow pilot enjoy BMS without crashing, and grinding away his hard drive for hours. And maybe we all learn something along the way.
Anyway, there is one other report now of similar experience, on a desktop w/ 16 Gb ram and 6 Gb video-ram. I’m hoping we discover it’s OBS or some third-party VR plugin or something that is common cause…
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@airtex2019 There is no need to “convince us”
If there is indeed a memory leak of 50-85 MB/minute, I sure hope it would be a more well known effect among many. It’s really hard to tell from 1 report or 2 if there is indeed something real. I’ll anyway forward this report internally and will see, we do have ways to track memory leaks and usually serious ones are found if a coder take the time to inspect closely and use tools that help. I can also tell that in last years we use more and more less risky data structures - More std structures like vectors and less self-allocated arrays or whatever, and so I hope it should lower the chances for a leak.Cheers!
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@I-Hawk Yeah AppVerifier alone would flag any orphaned allocations, at shut-down time. I get that. If there is a leak in BMS process I think it would likely be in a dependency (like audio codecs or networking or graphics drivers) rather than first-party code.
Or, something like stream-capture software, or those dodgy VR-adapter libraries, or even things like RivaTuner which seem to inject DLLs into processes making dx calls.
Will be interesting to see if there’s a diff 4.35 vs 4.36. And if so… I wouldn’t know any easy way to narrow down the culprit further, than to clean-reinstall Windows & BMS, and add in other software one by one.
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@white_fang said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
beating a pretty much a dead horse. Needs more RAM , as conviced by Max and Hawk , case closed.
I’m the one with, possibly, the less computing knowledge here in this aspect, but, how would increasing my RAM stop my pagefile from increasing until a crash? Of course, I have no clue on what’s the actual problem, but doubling my pagefile amount would - I’d think - only allow me to fly for twice as long before a crash, no?
Also, I did not have OBS or any external programs running on these 4.36 flights as possible memory leak causes. Only app running was TeamSpeak, but it didn’t consume any significant RAM and Pagefile size.
Thanks again!
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@ArcherAC3 said in BMS Crashes after time spent in flight - Memory Usage warning appears moments before crash - Memory Leak issue?:
how would increasing my RAM stop my pagefile from increasing until a crash?
It probably would not. Kind of a separate question, about what is the real expected RAM footprint and minimum-system-reqs. On my system, BMS stabilizes at about 6.7 Gb commit size (but only about 1.4 Gb in active “working set” use at any time). The rest of Win10, with nothing else running, adds up to about 8.5 Gb total commit.
This means, BMS probably won’t run on a 8 Gb sytstem, without some sporadic disk I/O happening in the background, as pages are swapped in/out when various background processes wake up and try to do things. On a desktop it might be ok, but in a case like yours, laptop with only 2 Gb video-ram, some of that 8 Gb will be reserved for that purpose… so there might be quite a bit of disk thrashing and stuttering as you fly.
doubling my pagefile amount would - I’d think - only allow me to fly for twice as long before a crash, no?
Correct. And your HDD will be writing 1-2 Mb/sec to the pagefile, the whole time, as you fly.