Unsolved Barlock RADAR...but where/why??
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This is just plain weird.
I created a new TE in 4.37, and only added a single aircraft to just joyride.
I get in the TE and fly north, and start getting pinged by a Barlock search RADAR. I thought it weird but had to quit that flying session.
I re-flew it tonight to check out the Barlock pings with a HARM loadout and HTS pod, and as I flew further North, I encountered a second RADAR.
The HTS detected an SA-5 somewhere around Ongin, but the RWR was showing a Barlock spike NE of there.
I headed towards the HTS target, and that’s when the second Barlock spike appeared on the RWR, west of the first and closer to the HTS target but still not correlated with it. I started to descend towards where I thought it was located, using the RWR as a crude direction-finder.
I eventually narrowed the location down to a small wooded area just off the NW corner of Ongin airbase. I did a few fly-bys, but couldn’t see anything remotely looking like a Barlock RADAR antenna array.
I didn’t add anything in the way of ground assets, and it was a new TE, not a copy of anything else.
Where are these ghost Barlocks coming from? The other oddity is that at no time did the HTS and RWR correlate. The HTS only showed one RADAR system, always off to the left of the RWR spike, but it did get closer as I flew towards the location (the HTS target didn’t appear to be floating).
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@Tiger-0 Static objects can also emit. SA-5 sites usually have a radio altimeter which the RWR identifies as a Fan Song, the same logic can be with static radars. HTS can detect more radar bands than RWR (eg Spoon Rest) , and triangulation of emitting objects may not be as accurate.
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Foxtrot is right.
Hi!
Don’t think that RWR, HTS, … are perfect tools. They are two different devices, made for different purposes, not working the same way, not using the same libraries, not effected by the same errors …
Their do not show “the reality” but can only show you what they receive and are able to process.Tiger, you are showing a picture of your RWR while in turn … keep in mind that it can cause false measurements (not sure it is implemented).
A good reading:
ELECTRONIC WARFARE FUNDAMENTALS : https://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Electronic-Warfare-Fundamentals.pdf
Regards.
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From the OP, I gather he didn’t place any ground assets in the TE. Where are the ghost emissions coming from…
You’ll need to upload the TE so we may try. -
I’ve seen this, no placed ground units on a TE, I’ll get a Barlock too. Figured maybe it is one of the hard placed DPRK ones somehow than a bug. But…
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@Quasi_Stellar said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
From the OP, I gather he didn’t place any ground assets in the TE. Where are the ghost emissions coming from…
You’ll need to upload the TE so we may try.Had the same, no ground unit.
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Answer given:
“SA-5 sites usually have a radio altimeter which the RWR identifies as a Fan Song,”
It is probably the Odd Group.
I do not remember, but RWR can have up to 30° - 45°imprecision depending on radar band and few other param.https://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Electronic-Warfare-Fundamentals.pdf
…
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@Dee-Jay said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
Answer given:
“SA-5 sites usually have a radio altimeter which the RWR identifies as a Fan Song,”
It is probably the Odd Group.
I do not remember, but RWR can have up to 30° - 45°imprecision depending on radar band and few other param.https://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Electronic-Warfare-Fundamentals.pdf
…
SA5 sites as the objective ones and Odd Group as objective objects?
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@Tiger-0
Why not sharing the TE so we could repro and check by ourselves ? -
@Dee-Jay said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
@Tiger-0
Why not sharing the TE so we could repro and check by ourselves ?Easy. Create a F16 flight over Pyongyang in the vanilla TE and fly.
EDIT: that’s my new cheval de bataille. Convince people to read original posts. Including the two first lines.
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@Dee-Jay Here’s mine. It’s an AAR practice TE out over the Yellow Sea out of Gusan and Seosan. I really think its the Songhyon Radar facility for me. The bearing seems right.
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@Dee-Jay said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
@Tiger-0
Why not sharing the TE so we could repro and check by ourselves ?Because it was late, and I just returned to this thread. Here it is.
https://mega.nz/file/Nr5FWATR#Gv9c3ZTK_26hUkzFDYHcDDzUejRdOhQ2YlJu_yxOiOY
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@Dee-Jay said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
Foxtrot is right.
Hi!
Don’t think that RWR, HTS, … are perfect tools. They are two different devices, made for different purposes, not working the same way, not using the same libraries, not effected by the same errors …
Their do not show “the reality” but can only show you what they receive and are able to process.Tiger, you are showing a picture of your RWR while in turn … keep in mind that it can cause false measurements (not sure it is implemented).
A good reading:
ELECTRONIC WARFARE FUNDAMENTALS : https://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Electronic-Warfare-Fundamentals.pdf
Regards.
Thanks for the link! I know they are imperfect, and I didn’t get a chance to check out the HTS target, either.
FYI, it appears that roll angle does NOT affect target bearing according to RWR, so it seems it is not modelled. I was actually anticipating this effect while flying. I think it will flip though if you roll inverted.
I’m going up for another flight now so I’ll see if anything changes from the last flight, and check out the HTS target.
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@Foxtrot701 said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
@Tiger-0 Static objects can also emit. SA-5 sites usually have a radio altimeter which the RWR identifies as a Fan Song.
I don’t quite understand. SA-5 has radio altimeter??
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@Tiger-0 Yes, PRV-7 “Odd Group”. It is similar to the SA-2 (and its sounds) on the RWR.
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@Foxtrot701 said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
@Tiger-0 Yes, PRV-7 “Odd Group”. It is similar to the SA-2 (and its sounds) on the RWR.
I did wonder if that is what this is. I’m flying now to see if I can find anything.
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@Tiger-0 i found these Barlocks! They were static and were located at North Korean airfields (Taetan and Mirim).
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@Tiger-0 Have you tried to shoot a Harm on it, and look where it goes and what happens?
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Just small note, the SA-5B (S-200 Vega) never had the P-37 (Bar Lock) radar.
Different S-200 variants and their radars.
I’m working on the English version of the S-200 system currently.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzdPKsRJUHVoitxBwxAkh-g -
@hiuuz said in Barlock RADAR...but where/why??:
@Tiger-0 Have you tried to shoot a Harm on it, and look where it goes and what happens?
No… that was my next test! I thought about that too late last night.
The HTS target had the emissions also coming out of a forest.