F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on
-
Hello.
Is it to be considered normal that an F15C can fire an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles (both aircraft between 30,000 and 32,000 feet) at an F16 ECM on, program 4 only?
And that , on its side, the F16 i(with ECM on) is able to bug this opponent which also has its ECM on at 45 nautical miles (and to keep the lock)?
-
An AI F-15? - recent changes with the AI do have them firing low PK shots as part of their tactics…thought that was intended…get the same with Su-27s.
What do you mean by “on its side”? flying perpendicular /beaming? (if so you may not be jamming anything if the implementation covers front/back only)
-
The two fighters are standing face to face, one’s nose facing the other’s nose.
It’s not the fact that he’s shooting from so far away that’s the bottom line of my question, it’s the fact that my ECM is on and it doesn’t seem to bother him at all.
Just as it doesn’t bother my radar at all that his ECM is also on, like mine, while both combined are supposed to drastically reduce the look distance (about 20 nm in the case of combat between 2 F16).
In short, we have exactly the same behavior with the F15 as if the ECM was completely inefficient, for me as for him.
This does not happen every time, there are sometimes engagements where the ECM seems to work but let’s say that 6 times out of 10 we have this behavior that I find irrational (especially since the other 4 times out of 10 it is consistent with what can be expected from the operation of jammers).
-
And yes, it is a F15C “piloted” by the artificial Intelligence, not a jet for the Israeli Airforce (with a band J radar) .
-
Well what was your Xmt status ? what was your aspect relative to target ?
-
Bonsoir Mav-JP
Everything is in the zip: here https://we.tl/t-lnl14jKGxF
XMT in position 3 - Program 4 only (see screen shot in the zip), and obviously emission.5 small ACMI.
I’m completely out of BMS between 2 and 3, and again between 4 and 5.It is only in the 5 that the behavior reaches for me the normality, i.e. impossibility to lock and to shoot before the approaches of 20 nm.
-
NB : The F15 is a “US” F15 with an I-band radar
-
NB2 : After checking (I didn’t have time to do it before), the aspect angle is always very close to 180° when the F15 shoots, and the same for its approach.
-
@Rouge1512
ECM is not effective same on all aspects (360).
I’ve also have been able to bug J-15 with F18E (and vice versa) around that range (40-50nm) … and keep lock… even in TWS.
But, as soon he changes aspect, and/or ecm logic kicks in with turn, give a few seconds … you will loose lock in matter of second. - high/low aspect.So in that time you could even fire , A120B/C, PL12,… but , MISS guaranteed.
So… not a problem ?
-
The F-15C has a big powerful radar, even the mech scan one.
Being able to take a shot at 43nm even on a strobing target is completely normal.
-
@DUSTOFF17
Why not.But that does not give the explanation for the fact that the “small” radar of the F16, while being hampered by its own jamming and the jammer of the F15 manages nevertheless to bug the F15 much further than 30 nautical miles.
You will answer me that the F15 is a big plane.
Why not.
But in this case, why is it random: one time it is possible to bug the F15 at more than 30 nautical miles, and the next time at only 20 nautical miles, with the same aspect angle, the same altitude and almost the same speed.Anyway, only a developer and in particular Mav-JP can say if, in the game, what I reported corresponds or not to his expectations.
-
Thank you for your answer, but I don’t think it is completely in correlation with my question which is basically the one I explain in the second part of my answer to @DUSTOFF17.
-
@Rouge1512 said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
But that does not give the explanation for the fact that the “small” radar of the F16, while being hampered by its own jamming and the jammer of the F15 manages nevertheless to bug the F15 much further than 30 nautical miles.
In reality it is whole different ballgame, ecm/eccm , freq hop/adapt, ecm xmit ~ radar sync … there’s no way to explain in simple math…
don’t even assume that all this can be included in emulation - from tech and all other standpoints. - it can be ONLY close enough.But how is coded… your answered it yourself.
Anyway, only a developer and in particular Mav-JP can say if, in the game, what I reported corresponds or not to his expectations.
-or yours (and our?) expectations?..
Good luck.
-
@Rouge1512 said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
@DUSTOFF17
Why not.But that does not give the explanation for the fact that the “small” radar of the F16, while being hampered by its own jamming and the jammer of the F15 manages nevertheless to bug the F15 much further than 30 nautical miles.
You will answer me that the F15 is a big plane.
Why not.
But in this case, why is it random: one time it is possible to bug the F15 at more than 30 nautical miles, and the next time at only 20 nautical miles, with the same aspect angle, the same altitude and almost the same speed.Anyway, only a developer and in particular Mav-JP can say if, in the game, what I reported corresponds or not to his expectations.
Who told you that the f15 was flying every time with his Fwd antenna active
-
@Mav-jp
This already gives an explanation to one of the questions.
And if the ECM of the F16 is ineffective against the radar of the F15 from 40 nautical miles then we also have the second.
Finally, if the F15, with an angle of aspect around 180°, has a radar reflection important enough so that the power of the F16’s radar is not hindered by the operation of its jamming towards the front, and then lock the F15 beyond 30 nautical miles, we have a third one.This makes for a better known opponent, and therefore more easily manageable, but it does not at all make you want to choose the Red camp in the next Falcon Online campaign, since a large part of the CAPs in the Blue Camp are performed by F15s .
In this context (of FO), I hope the SU 33 and SU 37 have the same capabilities.
Merci @Mav-jp and @white_fang for your answers.
-
@Rouge1512 said in F15 firing an AIM120 C at 43 nautical miles on an F16 with its ECM on:
@Mav-jp
This already gives an explanation to one of the questions.
And if the ECM of the F16 is ineffective against the radar of the F15 from 40 nautical miles then we also have the second.
Finally, if the F15, with an angle of aspect around 180°, has a radar reflection important enough so that the power of the F16’s radar is not hindered by the operation of its jamming towards the front, and then lock the F15 beyond 30 nautical miles, we have a third one.This makes for a better known opponent, and therefore more easily manageable, but it does not at all make you want to choose the Red camp in the next Falcon Online campaign, since a large part of the CAPs in the Blue Camp are performed by F15s .
In this context (of FO), I hope the SU 33 and SU 37 have the same capabilities.
Merci @Mav-jp and @white_fang for your answers.
I will check it though
-
@Rouge1512 The f-15 is jammed with program 5 not 4. Same with the Mig-31. All other aircraft, program 4
-
Thank you.
It seemed to me that there was only the F15 aggressor and maybe the Israeli F15 that was in Ku (EW: J - Program 5).
The APG-63 and the AN/APG-70 of the US F15 are both given as transmitting in X band (EW: I - Program 4).
-
It was in the 4.37 ou inU1 documentation I think, but maybe it has changed (not found in the new doc)
![aba77a67-214e-4282-be46-87de203aac6a-image.png] (https://i.imgur.com/nBmxxR7.png)
-
Does anyone have the reference of a document related to the world of BMS in which we could find the band for the F15 radar?