Ramp Start Training Mission vs Checklist - 4.37 U2
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@Micro_440th
#ramp-start-checklist
Since the current 4.37U2 Ramp Start ‘training mission’ is so different from the new ‘checklist’, will the ‘future’ U3 Ramp Start training mission follow the new checklist only (Excluding ECM system on, TWA on, CMDS system on, RWR system test/on, T-ILS setting, A-LOW setting, BINGO setting, Fuel Qty check, HMCS align, etc.)?a) Wondering if those systems will be taught/set in a new, “Supplemental Procedures” mission (maybe during a flight after takeoff, for example)
b) Included in other updated training missions that require them, or
c) Still included in the Ramp Start training, but somehow indicated as “not required now, but here’s how you do it”; and/or simply added into the new checklist, even if not ‘official’ checklist items?Can you give us a clue as to what direction you might be going with this ‘future’ U3 training mission?
When I see how much the documentation has changed recently, I imagine that you’re getting bombarded by all of the re-write work that appears to be your responsibility! And we the community, keep asking you all of these crazy questions! Yikes!
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@Dan hi!
I don’t had the plan to change anything if nothing is broken. In terms of your questions I have time at weekend to think about it and respond more in detail.
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@Micro_440th
I agree completely. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”Basically, what I would like to know is WHEN does an F-16 pilot typically do these “non-checklist” procedures, IRL?
It seems like they should certainly be done before takeoff and per SOP, to make sure all of these systems are ready and working properly for the mission, but…
WHEN would they be done within the current checklist? (between or after or during the ‘3 sweep’ method?)I’m curious to know when they are done in the ‘real world’.
Any comments from current or former pilots?
Thanks!
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Overall, I will not touch this TR for U3 if no serious discrepancy will pop up.
Can you describe where you see the differences between checklist and ramp start?a) no new mission
b) not planed for 4.37
c) Not sure what you mean here. This checklist is for all missions, not only for TR01.The reason why the documentation changes is the input of the community and personal development. So this is the reason why we get better
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Hi, @Micro_440th ,
Here are the differences that I notice between the checklist and the current Ramp Start training mission documentation:
Checklist: 3-After Engine Start, - 2. SEC Check
GroundOPS: pg. 21, 5. SEC is AFTER EPU test?- Should the SEC test be ‘moved’ forward in the mission training description, to match the checklist?
Checklist: 3-After Engine Start, - 8(g) QNH check BEFORE (8h) EGI Align
GroundOPS: pg.28, ATIS QNH request AFTER EGI Align?- Should a QNH check & set, be ‘added’ BEFORE EGI Align, in the mission training description, to match the checklist?
Checklist - No TWA on ---------- Ground OPS pg. 22, 7. TWA on
Checklist - No CMDS on -------- GroundOPS pg.22, 8. CMDS system on
Checklist - No TWP test ----------- GroundOPS pg. 22, 10. TWP test
Checklist - No A-LOW setting ---- GroundOPS pg.23, UFC settings
Checklist - No ILS setting ---------- GroundOPS pg.23, UFC settings
Checklist - No Joker fuel setting - GroundOPS pg.23, UFC settings
Checklist - No Fuel QTY check — GroundOPS pg.23, UFC settings
Checklist - No HMCS alignment - GroundOPS pg.24, HMCS Coarse alignment
I realize that these (8) items are ‘mission-specific’ and wouldn’t be on the standard checklist, but they are important items to be learned during startup training.- Can I assume the location of these (8) tasks in the training mission (pgs. 22,23,24, during the ramp start), are the typical ‘points in time’ that these tasks would occur during a “real” startup?
If so, then maybe only items 1 & 2 could use some attention.
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@Dan I’ve made my own checklist that follows the training manual for now. When I get my head around it again, then I’ll look at the official checklist again. I did go through both with a fine-tooth comb and there are differences between the two but not too familiar with it yet to see whether anything is really mission-critical.
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@Atlas
The time to do the SEC check is earlier on the checklist, than on the training mission and the checklist also says to dial in your QNH BEFORE you start the EGI alignment.
Not major items but I’m trying to get my latest training script to be in the right order and matching (as close as possible) the checklist to the text in the training manual. I just need clarification, since they don’t match right now. The other items are mentioned in the manual, but are not on the checklist, since they’re mission specific. Pretty important stuff if you don’t already know about them. -
Thanks for your information.
I learn the cold start from the training manual and DCS viper manual. Is the checklist different from that? order or missing part etc? -
@mack97
The differences between the two are pretty minor but right now, for learning purposes, I’d stick with the training manual. It fills in the extra info you need to fully understand what’s happening during the start up and uses the 3 sweep method of remembering all of the steps. Once you’re comfortable with the process, you’ll have the knee pad checklist to fall back on, in case you need a reminder. -
@Dan said in Ramp Start Training Mission vs Checklist - 4.37 U2:
@mack97
The differences between the two are pretty minor but right now, for learning purposes, I’d stick with the training manual. It fills in the extra info you need to fully understand what’s happening during the start up and uses the 3 sweep method of remembering all of the steps. Once you’re comfortable with the process, you’ll have the knee pad checklist to fall back on, in case you need a reminder.I will check in detail. If I have time, I will sync the training manual with the checklists about those minor discrepancys in U3.
Thanks for checking!
Cheers