Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Why is there no Save button in the Launcher?
Iāll start by agreeing with you ā I think much confusion and frustration re AL would be alleviated if it had a simple, familiar File-Open/Save metaphor, instead of trying to overwrite stuffā¦ basically, I too really wish it was āAlternative Key/Cfg File Editorā instead of āAlternative Launcherā. (I do kinda understand the history and rationale of why it was made the way it wasā¦ needing to write the .pop file which points to the key file etc, for a seamless startup experience. So ok, it is what it is.)
Remember, you can simply choose not to use it. Or, use it as a one-time editorā¦ Once you have all your buttons and keys the way you like, just save a backup copy of āBMS-Auto.keyāā¦ call it whatever, āJstnJ.keyā and you can load that within BMS if you want.
Nobody needs a launcher, old or newā¦ Windows is perfectly capable of launching programs [citation needed]. Just make a shortcut to ā\Falcon BMS 4.37\Bin\x64\Falcon BMS.exeā and be done with it.
(Why was there ever a Launcher.exe to begin with? That, I have no ideaā¦ maybe it was to enforce set some app-compat flags on the actual BMS process. Or just avoid filling desktop with half dozen shortcuts to things like RTT, IVC, Config.exe and the editor, etc)
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@Icarus said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Works fine here, couldnt be easier. Save button in keymapping also works fine on my end. No issues here.
Hmm.
So is the order of operations:
- Make edits in Launcher
- Launch
- Immediately go to Setupā>Controllers
- Save the config
For 4 above, do I save it and overwrite
BMS - Auto
or should I be saving it as another profile? It seems if I do the latter, the profile does not load on subsequent launches.No. Dont do anything in setup>controllers. Do it all in launcher. Its actually very intuitive. Press save in launcher. Save each edit. Use autokey as keyfile is least complicated.
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Why is there no Save button in the Launcher?
Iāll start by agreeing with you ā I think much confusion and frustration re AL would be alleviated if it had a simple, familiar File-Open/Save metaphor, instead of trying to overwrite stuffā¦ basically, I too really wish it was āAlternative Key/Cfg File Editorā instead of āAlternative Launcherā. (I do kinda understand the history and rationale of why it was made the way it wasā¦ needing to write the .pop file which points to the key file etc, for a seamless startup experience. So ok, it is what it is.)
Remember, you can simply choose not to use it. Or, use it as a one-time editorā¦ Once you have all your buttons and keys the way you like, just save a backup copy of āBMS-Auto.keyāā¦ call it whatever, āJstnJ.keyā and you can load that within BMS if you want.
Nobody needs a launcher, old or newā¦ Windows is perfectly capable of launching programs [citation needed]. Just make a shortcut to ā\Falcon BMS 4.37\Bin\x64\Falcon BMS.exeā and be done with it.
(Why was there ever a Launcher.exe to begin with? That, I have no ideaā¦ maybe it was to enforce set some app-compat flags on the actual BMS process. Or just avoid filling desktop with half dozen shortcuts to things like RTT, IVC, Config.exe and the editor, etc)
Well, my issue isnāt really the Launcher necessarily. I can see the use for the launcher: There are many tools, companion apps, and configuration options that can be more easily linked from the launcher.
By using the launcher you saveā¦4 or 5 desktop shortcuts, and it also allows you to do things like change the theatre etc.
My āissueā, valid or not, is that the keyfile situation is finickyā¦one wrong move and it does not do what you expect. I am a product manager working in software development for a living, however, I am just one voice so, take that with a grain of salt.
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@jstnj yeah I think the āKey File Editorā should be just another app down in the tray of various ecosystem apps, that one can launch when desired. just like Config.exe for modifying the cfg file.
it might be mootā¦ I think/hope bigger changes are in store for the entire 2d experience
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@jstnj Its quite simple.
- Set all your call-backs in the Launcher, e.g. Key-mapping
Forget about the set-up page in the UI, I think thereās only a couple settings that cannot be done via the Launcher e.g. Mirrors but I assume that will be added in due course. Compared to previous versions the Launcher is a huge improvement, no need to edit the key-files directly and potentially stuff things up with a typo.
The only criticism I had for the last update is that the updater needed to be updated first. Otherwise its as simple as hell to use. Do all your edits with the check box blank, get everything working how you want it, when you think youāre done check it again. Finally set the check box and nothing will be over-ridden.
Youāre welcome!
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Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but donāt try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
** you can call it āNew way to configureā
*** you can call it āLegacy way to configureā -
@jstnj Do yourself a big favour, copy out regularly the ā¦BMS437\User\Config folder, (i zip it to an online location at every machine start up using task scheduler).
That way you can iterate your testing/debugging of your issues, and always get back to your best settings. Might even allow you identify whatās causing the 75% failure rate with the AL
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@Fish44 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj Do yourself a big favour, copy out regularly the ā¦BMS437\User\Config folder, (i zip it to an online location at every machine start up using task scheduler).
That way you can iterate your testing/debugging of your issues, and always get back to your best settings. Might even allow you identify whatās causing the 75% failure rate with the AL
The issue I ran into already is that this didnāt work.
I backed up the entire User/Config folder and restored it during a reinstall, but because the control axes need rebinding during that process, I still lost all the non-auto bindings.
ā¦Which is the overarching point Iām trying to make, there are competing files, the devicesorting.txt, and two āsources of truthā between the Launcher and the 2D menuā¦itās hard to even troubleshoot the issue when that happens.
Secondly, editing the Launcher dropdown from
BMS - Auto
to any other starting point (likeJstnJ backup
) seems to not doā¦anything? the binds that I backed up do not show when I change the selection in the Launcher dropdown.Itās a collection of weird functionality that I canāt completely understand. Again, I am just one person so, ymmv.
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
backed up the entire User/Config folder and restored it during a reinstall, but because the control axes need rebinding during that process, I still lost
No, the backup and restore really should have worked.
I donāt know whatās going wrong on your system. Are you saying, itās confusing and error-prone? (I agree)
Or are you saying, itās truly 25% / 75% nondeterministic ā scrambles things at random? (That is not happening to anyone else.)
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
- Why is there no
Save
button in the Launcher?
Because, when closing, Launcher automaticaly update & save
BMS - Auto.key
(Key bindings) &Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
(DX bindings) files base on the settings done (in the Launcher).
Nota : seems to do it even if you close the window without launching BMS. To be confirmed.If you uncheck the āLaunch without any setup overideā , it will update as well the axis mapping & calibration (
axismapping.dat
&joystick.cal
for what I understood)- Why canāt I save a keyfile (like
JstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
) and have it be the active profile when I go to Setupā>Controllers instead ofBMS-Auto
being the active profile every time?
Part of the answer above.
In addition if you launch with setup overide (ie decide to use the setting done in the Launcher), it will setBMS - Auto.key
as the active keyfile. This is somehow logical because it is where the key map settings have been saved (again by/through the Launcher).- Why must I mess with toggling the setup override during launch in order for certain things to work?
You shouldnāt mess with toggling the setup override :
If you launch without setup overide --> Only launcher settings will be usedIf you launch with setup overide --> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
EDIT :- If you launch with setup overide (without checking the checkbox) --> Only launcher settings will be used
- If you launch without setup overide (with checking the checkbox)ā> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
- Why inexplicably are all my keybinds for my RSSB cleared out simply by toggling the keyfile back and forth in the launcher?
Because, once you use the Launcher for your settings, the keybinds are in the
BMS - Auto.key
+Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
and no longer inJstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
. The latter is only the start reference for your 1st keybinding with the Launcher (and only the key, not the DX).I really enjoy the enhanced launcher being the default now, but I have never had so many keyfile issues as I do in 4.37.
So you seems to be used to Legacy settings methology (ie pre New Laucnehr, ie BMS 2D/UI Setup & Key File Editor). I you want (or need) to keep the old way (as I personnaly do), just do it (ie donāt do the settings in Launcher) and launch without setup overide.
And keep in mind : @CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but donāt try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
** you can call it āNew way to configureā
*** you can call it āLegacy way to configureā - Why is there no
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@jstnj said
The issue I ran into already is that this didnāt work.
Sorry i canāt help you any further. I donāt use the AL, and have no knowledge of what it does. What i do know is the files containing your game settings, video etct, and joystick mapping, and key mappings are all in the config folder. If you are having issues with those backed up files, either 1. they are broken to start with, or 2. AL is breaking them.
If 2 is the answer, then restoring, and running BMS from the .exe should give you good settings. (if you have a good set of files in that backup)
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@CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
- Why is there no
Save
button in the Launcher?
Because, when closing, Launcher automaticaly update & save
BMS - Auto.key
(Key bindings) &Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
(DX bindings) files base on the settings done (in the Launcher).
Nota : seems to do it even if you close the window without launching BMS. To be confirmed.If you uncheck the āLaunch without any setup overideā , it will update as well the axis mapping & calibration (
axismapping.dat
&joystick.cal
for what I understood)- Why canāt I save a keyfile (like
JstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
) and have it be the active profile when I go to Setupā>Controllers instead ofBMS-Auto
being the active profile every time?
Part of the answer above.
In addition if you launch with setup overide (ie decide to use the setting done in the Launcher), it will setBMS - Auto.key
as the active keyfile. This is somehow logical because it is where the key map settings have been saved (again by/through the Launcher).- Why must I mess with toggling the setup override during launch in order for certain things to work?
You shouldnāt mess with toggling the setup override :
- If you launch without setup overide --> Only launcher settings will be used
- If you launch with setup overide --> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
- Why inexplicably are all my keybinds for my RSSB cleared out simply by toggling the keyfile back and forth in the launcher?
Because, once you use the Launcher for your settings, the keybinds are in the
BMS - Auto.key
+Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
and no longer inJstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
. The latter is only the start reference for your 1st keybinding with the Launcher (and only the key, not the DX).I really enjoy the enhanced launcher being the default now, but I have never had so many keyfile issues as I do in 4.37.
So you seems to be used to Legacy settings methology (ie pre New Laucnehr, ie BMS 2D/UI Setup & Key File Editor). I you want (or need) to keep the old way (as I personnaly do), just do it (ie donāt do the settings in Launcher) and launch without setup overide.
And keep in mind : @CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but donāt try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
** you can call it āNew way to configureā
*** you can call it āLegacy way to configureāThis is exactly the explanation I needed. Thanks for the clarifications.
Itās still unintuitive but, at least I understand some of the peculiarities a little better now.
Thank you!
- Why is there no
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See itās confusing!
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
See itās confusing!
Wait, is this correct? I thought the āsetup overrideā boolean decides whether the
Falcon BMS User.cfg
gets loaded atop theFalcon BMS.cfg
.If so, I guess I misunderstood some verbiage again.
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@jstnj It was worded backward. Itās like a double-negativeā¦ I think meant āif you launch without checking the box to launch without overridesā - vs - āif you launch with checking the box to launch without overridesā.
And no it has nothing to do with BMS loading the cfg files the way it does. BMS does what BMS does, even if you never run the Alt Launcher.
AL will append some stuff to your user.cfg file (the lines that are tagged with // SETUP OVERRIDE) when you first launch with overrides, but it never removes those, even if you subsequently set the checkboxā¦
Also be aware there are things like pilot-model and smart-scaling which are in the binary pop files, not the cfg files. Same rules apply.
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
See itās confusing!
Indeed (I never said it was not confusing )
My mistake, Thatās the other way .If you launch with setup overide (without checking the checkbox) --> Only launcher settings will be used
If you launch without setup overide (with checking the checkbox)ā> Only BMS 2D settings will be usedI definitly think the following is the starting point to understand all the rest.
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but donāt try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
**you can call it āNew way to configureā
***you can call it āLegacy way to configureā -
As an example of the deepening confusion, hereās directions on how to install Morphineās TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
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In short, the best way not to have problems with Alternate launcher is to do without it .
Yes, I know, I just put a piece in the trolling machine on this subject.
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As an example of the deepening confusion, hereās directions on how to install Morphineās TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
Itās a long thread ā what specifically? The initial instructions align with what we are saying ā basically it shows you how to set the pinky-shift magnitude in cfg, and load the keyfile yourself, within BMS, and not use the Alt Launcher at all.
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As an example of the deepening confusion, hereās directions on how to install Morphineās TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
Itās a long thread ā what specifically? The initial instructions align with what we are saying ā basically it shows you how to set the pinky-shift magnitude in cfg, and load the keyfile yourself, within BMS, and not use the Alt Launcher at all.
Yes, I guess its just assuming you are NOT using the Launcher. If you did (use the launcher), you might find yourself in a confusing spot where things arent working.
āContradictā may have been an incorrect word. What I mean is, the Launcher is a bit confusing, the 2D keyfile mgmt is confusing, and the fact that there are multiple pathways to do them (but mixing them leads to terrible user experience), is collectively daunting.
As a 5+ year BMS user, I dont really have THAT much of a problem now that it was explained to meā¦but Iām just pointing out it could be a bit unintuitive and scary for new BMSers is all.