Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
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@jstnj yeah I think the “Key File Editor” should be just another app down in the tray of various ecosystem apps, that one can launch when desired. just like Config.exe for modifying the cfg file.
it might be moot… I think/hope bigger changes are in store for the entire 2d experience
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@jstnj Its quite simple.
- Set all your call-backs in the Launcher, e.g. Key-mapping
Forget about the set-up page in the UI, I think there’s only a couple settings that cannot be done via the Launcher e.g. Mirrors but I assume that will be added in due course. Compared to previous versions the Launcher is a huge improvement, no need to edit the key-files directly and potentially stuff things up with a typo.
The only criticism I had for the last update is that the updater needed to be updated first. Otherwise its as simple as hell to use. Do all your edits with the check box blank, get everything working how you want it, when you think you’re done check it again. Finally set the check box and nothing will be over-ridden.
You’re welcome!
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Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but don’t try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
** you can call it “New way to configure”
*** you can call it “Legacy way to configure” -
@jstnj Do yourself a big favour, copy out regularly the …BMS437\User\Config folder, (i zip it to an online location at every machine start up using task scheduler).
That way you can iterate your testing/debugging of your issues, and always get back to your best settings. Might even allow you identify what’s causing the 75% failure rate with the AL
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@Fish44 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj Do yourself a big favour, copy out regularly the …BMS437\User\Config folder, (i zip it to an online location at every machine start up using task scheduler).
That way you can iterate your testing/debugging of your issues, and always get back to your best settings. Might even allow you identify what’s causing the 75% failure rate with the AL
The issue I ran into already is that this didn’t work.
I backed up the entire User/Config folder and restored it during a reinstall, but because the control axes need rebinding during that process, I still lost all the non-auto bindings.
…Which is the overarching point I’m trying to make, there are competing files, the devicesorting.txt, and two “sources of truth” between the Launcher and the 2D menu…it’s hard to even troubleshoot the issue when that happens.
Secondly, editing the Launcher dropdown from
BMS - Auto
to any other starting point (likeJstnJ backup
) seems to not do…anything? the binds that I backed up do not show when I change the selection in the Launcher dropdown.It’s a collection of weird functionality that I can’t completely understand. Again, I am just one person so, ymmv.
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
backed up the entire User/Config folder and restored it during a reinstall, but because the control axes need rebinding during that process, I still lost
No, the backup and restore really should have worked.
I don’t know what’s going wrong on your system. Are you saying, it’s confusing and error-prone? (I agree)
Or are you saying, it’s truly 25% / 75% nondeterministic – scrambles things at random? (That is not happening to anyone else.)
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
- Why is there no
Save
button in the Launcher?
Because, when closing, Launcher automaticaly update & save
BMS - Auto.key
(Key bindings) &Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
(DX bindings) files base on the settings done (in the Launcher).
Nota : seems to do it even if you close the window without launching BMS. To be confirmed.If you uncheck the “Launch without any setup overide” , it will update as well the axis mapping & calibration (
axismapping.dat
&joystick.cal
for what I understood)- Why can’t I save a keyfile (like
JstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
) and have it be the active profile when I go to Setup–>Controllers instead ofBMS-Auto
being the active profile every time?
Part of the answer above.
In addition if you launch with setup overide (ie decide to use the setting done in the Launcher), it will setBMS - Auto.key
as the active keyfile. This is somehow logical because it is where the key map settings have been saved (again by/through the Launcher).- Why must I mess with toggling the setup override during launch in order for certain things to work?
You shouldn’t mess with toggling the setup override :
If you launch without setup overide --> Only launcher settings will be usedIf you launch with setup overide --> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
EDIT :- If you launch with setup overide (without checking the checkbox) --> Only launcher settings will be used
- If you launch without setup overide (with checking the checkbox)–> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
- Why inexplicably are all my keybinds for my RSSB cleared out simply by toggling the keyfile back and forth in the launcher?
Because, once you use the Launcher for your settings, the keybinds are in the
BMS - Auto.key
+Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
and no longer inJstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
. The latter is only the start reference for your 1st keybinding with the Launcher (and only the key, not the DX).I really enjoy the enhanced launcher being the default now, but I have never had so many keyfile issues as I do in 4.37.
So you seems to be used to Legacy settings methology (ie pre New Laucnehr, ie BMS 2D/UI Setup & Key File Editor). I you want (or need) to keep the old way (as I personnaly do), just do it (ie don’t do the settings in Launcher) and launch without setup overide.
And keep in mind : @CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but don’t try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
** you can call it “New way to configure”
*** you can call it “Legacy way to configure” - Why is there no
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@jstnj said
The issue I ran into already is that this didn’t work.
Sorry i can’t help you any further. I don’t use the AL, and have no knowledge of what it does. What i do know is the files containing your game settings, video etct, and joystick mapping, and key mappings are all in the config folder. If you are having issues with those backed up files, either 1. they are broken to start with, or 2. AL is breaking them.
If 2 is the answer, then restoring, and running BMS from the .exe should give you good settings. (if you have a good set of files in that backup)
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@CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
- Why is there no
Save
button in the Launcher?
Because, when closing, Launcher automaticaly update & save
BMS - Auto.key
(Key bindings) &Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
(DX bindings) files base on the settings done (in the Launcher).
Nota : seems to do it even if you close the window without launching BMS. To be confirmed.If you uncheck the “Launch without any setup overide” , it will update as well the axis mapping & calibration (
axismapping.dat
&joystick.cal
for what I understood)- Why can’t I save a keyfile (like
JstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
) and have it be the active profile when I go to Setup–>Controllers instead ofBMS-Auto
being the active profile every time?
Part of the answer above.
In addition if you launch with setup overide (ie decide to use the setting done in the Launcher), it will setBMS - Auto.key
as the active keyfile. This is somehow logical because it is where the key map settings have been saved (again by/through the Launcher).- Why must I mess with toggling the setup override during launch in order for certain things to work?
You shouldn’t mess with toggling the setup override :
- If you launch without setup overide --> Only launcher settings will be used
- If you launch with setup overide --> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
- Why inexplicably are all my keybinds for my RSSB cleared out simply by toggling the keyfile back and forth in the launcher?
Because, once you use the Launcher for your settings, the keybinds are in the
BMS - Auto.key
+Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
and no longer inJstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
. The latter is only the start reference for your 1st keybinding with the Launcher (and only the key, not the DX).I really enjoy the enhanced launcher being the default now, but I have never had so many keyfile issues as I do in 4.37.
So you seems to be used to Legacy settings methology (ie pre New Laucnehr, ie BMS 2D/UI Setup & Key File Editor). I you want (or need) to keep the old way (as I personnaly do), just do it (ie don’t do the settings in Launcher) and launch without setup overide.
And keep in mind : @CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but don’t try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
** you can call it “New way to configure”
*** you can call it “Legacy way to configure”This is exactly the explanation I needed. Thanks for the clarifications.
It’s still unintuitive but, at least I understand some of the peculiarities a little better now.
Thank you!
- Why is there no
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See it’s confusing!
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
See it’s confusing!
Wait, is this correct? I thought the “setup override” boolean decides whether the
Falcon BMS User.cfg
gets loaded atop theFalcon BMS.cfg
.If so, I guess I misunderstood some verbiage again.
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@jstnj It was worded backward. It’s like a double-negative… I think meant “if you launch without checking the box to launch without overrides” - vs - “if you launch with checking the box to launch without overrides”.
And no it has nothing to do with BMS loading the cfg files the way it does. BMS does what BMS does, even if you never run the Alt Launcher.
AL will append some stuff to your user.cfg file (the lines that are tagged with // SETUP OVERRIDE) when you first launch with overrides, but it never removes those, even if you subsequently set the checkbox…
Also be aware there are things like pilot-model and smart-scaling which are in the binary pop files, not the cfg files. Same rules apply.
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
See it’s confusing!
Indeed (I never said it was not confusing )
My mistake, That’s the other way .If you launch with setup overide (without checking the checkbox) --> Only launcher settings will be used
If you launch without setup overide (with checking the checkbox)–> Only BMS 2D settings will be usedI definitly think the following is the starting point to understand all the rest.
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but don’t try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
**you can call it “New way to configure”
***you can call it “Legacy way to configure” -
As an example of the deepening confusion, here’s directions on how to install Morphine’s TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
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In short, the best way not to have problems with Alternate launcher is to do without it .
Yes, I know, I just put a piece in the trolling machine on this subject.
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As an example of the deepening confusion, here’s directions on how to install Morphine’s TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
It’s a long thread – what specifically? The initial instructions align with what we are saying – basically it shows you how to set the pinky-shift magnitude in cfg, and load the keyfile yourself, within BMS, and not use the Alt Launcher at all.
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As an example of the deepening confusion, here’s directions on how to install Morphine’s TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
It’s a long thread – what specifically? The initial instructions align with what we are saying – basically it shows you how to set the pinky-shift magnitude in cfg, and load the keyfile yourself, within BMS, and not use the Alt Launcher at all.
Yes, I guess its just assuming you are NOT using the Launcher. If you did (use the launcher), you might find yourself in a confusing spot where things arent working.
“Contradict” may have been an incorrect word. What I mean is, the Launcher is a bit confusing, the 2D keyfile mgmt is confusing, and the fact that there are multiple pathways to do them (but mixing them leads to terrible user experience), is collectively daunting.
As a 5+ year BMS user, I dont really have THAT much of a problem now that it was explained to me…but I’m just pointing out it could be a bit unintuitive and scary for new BMSers is all.
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As an example of the deepening confusion, here’s directions on how to install Morphine’s TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
This may be my last post on this topic … @jstnj, are you joking ?
Morphine’s explantations are EXCATLY of the kind of NOT using the launcher for settings. Everything is done manualy or through the BMS Setup, like we all did before Alternate Launcher was available.
So I phrase it differetly … the only thing you have to do : Do like you did before 4.37 and just check the box “launch without setup overide” before clicking “Launch”.
Highlitghing what was said before :
If you launch with setup overide (without checking the checkbox) --> Only launcher settings will be used
If you launch without setup overide (with checking the checkbox)–> Only BMS 2D settings will be usedBase statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings*
with the Launcher**or in BMS settings***, but don’t try to mix both methods.*includes axis mapping
**you can call it “New way to configure”
***you can call it “Legacy way to configure”EDIT : After rereading Morphine’s post, it is even worst to me, because he continues to use key emulation through target instead of directly using DX inputs.
I understand his point, like me he doesn’t want to go back to redoing his profile a “new way”, it is not a priority for him.He admit it himself :
Sooner or later, It would be easier to recreate this profile using DX keys. I’ve seen an interesting approach on the DCS boards that may allow us to take this profile beyond the 32 DX limit of target. Which would greatly simplify updates. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/144048-thrustmaster-combined-full-dx-mapping-extending-the-32-dx-buttons-limit/
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As a 5+ year BMS user, I dont really have THAT much of a problem now that it was explained to me…but I’m just pointing out it could be a bit unintuitive and scary for new BMSers is all.
New BMS users will use the AL and will not try to mess with BMS 2D Settings as we (as “old” players) are doing.
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In short, the best way not to have problems with Alternate launcher is to do without it .
Yes, I know, I just put a piece in the trolling machine on this subject.
@Rouge1512 That is your own point of view.
I personnaly know few people who are trully enthusiastic about the usage of the Alternate/New Launcher and will never go back the old way.
I don’t use AL for my own settings, not because the launcher doesn’t work, but because I am too laisy to redo all me settings the new way. I am postponing it as it is a lower priority for me.