Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
backed up the entire User/Config folder and restored it during a reinstall, but because the control axes need rebinding during that process, I still lost
No, the backup and restore really should have worked.
I donāt know whatās going wrong on your system. Are you saying, itās confusing and error-prone? (I agree)
Or are you saying, itās truly 25% / 75% nondeterministic ā scrambles things at random? (That is not happening to anyone else.)
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
- Why is there no
Save
button in the Launcher?
Because, when closing, Launcher automaticaly update & save
BMS - Auto.key
(Key bindings) &Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
(DX bindings) files base on the settings done (in the Launcher).
Nota : seems to do it even if you close the window without launching BMS. To be confirmed.If you uncheck the āLaunch without any setup overideā , it will update as well the axis mapping & calibration (
axismapping.dat
&joystick.cal
for what I understood)- Why canāt I save a keyfile (like
JstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
) and have it be the active profile when I go to Setupā>Controllers instead ofBMS-Auto
being the active profile every time?
Part of the answer above.
In addition if you launch with setup overide (ie decide to use the setting done in the Launcher), it will setBMS - Auto.key
as the active keyfile. This is somehow logical because it is where the key map settings have been saved (again by/through the Launcher).- Why must I mess with toggling the setup override during launch in order for certain things to work?
You shouldnāt mess with toggling the setup override :
If you launch without setup overide --> Only launcher settings will be usedIf you launch with setup overide --> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
EDIT :- If you launch with setup overide (without checking the checkbox) --> Only launcher settings will be used
- If you launch without setup overide (with checking the checkbox)ā> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
- Why inexplicably are all my keybinds for my RSSB cleared out simply by toggling the keyfile back and forth in the launcher?
Because, once you use the Launcher for your settings, the keybinds are in the
BMS - Auto.key
+Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
and no longer inJstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
. The latter is only the start reference for your 1st keybinding with the Launcher (and only the key, not the DX).I really enjoy the enhanced launcher being the default now, but I have never had so many keyfile issues as I do in 4.37.
So you seems to be used to Legacy settings methology (ie pre New Laucnehr, ie BMS 2D/UI Setup & Key File Editor). I you want (or need) to keep the old way (as I personnaly do), just do it (ie donāt do the settings in Launcher) and launch without setup overide.
And keep in mind : @CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but donāt try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
** you can call it āNew way to configureā
*** you can call it āLegacy way to configureā - Why is there no
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@jstnj said
The issue I ran into already is that this didnāt work.
Sorry i canāt help you any further. I donāt use the AL, and have no knowledge of what it does. What i do know is the files containing your game settings, video etct, and joystick mapping, and key mappings are all in the config folder. If you are having issues with those backed up files, either 1. they are broken to start with, or 2. AL is breaking them.
If 2 is the answer, then restoring, and running BMS from the .exe should give you good settings. (if you have a good set of files in that backup)
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@CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual)
- Why is there no
Save
button in the Launcher?
Because, when closing, Launcher automaticaly update & save
BMS - Auto.key
(Key bindings) &Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
(DX bindings) files base on the settings done (in the Launcher).
Nota : seems to do it even if you close the window without launching BMS. To be confirmed.If you uncheck the āLaunch without any setup overideā , it will update as well the axis mapping & calibration (
axismapping.dat
&joystick.cal
for what I understood)- Why canāt I save a keyfile (like
JstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
) and have it be the active profile when I go to Setupā>Controllers instead ofBMS-Auto
being the active profile every time?
Part of the answer above.
In addition if you launch with setup overide (ie decide to use the setting done in the Launcher), it will setBMS - Auto.key
as the active keyfile. This is somehow logical because it is where the key map settings have been saved (again by/through the Launcher).- Why must I mess with toggling the setup override during launch in order for certain things to work?
You shouldnāt mess with toggling the setup override :
- If you launch without setup overide --> Only launcher settings will be used
- If you launch with setup overide --> Only BMS 2D settings will be used
- Why inexplicably are all my keybinds for my RSSB cleared out simply by toggling the keyfile back and forth in the launcher?
Because, once you use the Launcher for your settings, the keybinds are in the
BMS - Auto.key
+Setup.vXXX.Devices.xml
and no longer inJstnJ - RSSB/TMThrtle
. The latter is only the start reference for your 1st keybinding with the Launcher (and only the key, not the DX).I really enjoy the enhanced launcher being the default now, but I have never had so many keyfile issues as I do in 4.37.
So you seems to be used to Legacy settings methology (ie pre New Laucnehr, ie BMS 2D/UI Setup & Key File Editor). I you want (or need) to keep the old way (as I personnaly do), just do it (ie donāt do the settings in Launcher) and launch without setup overide.
And keep in mind : @CheckPoint said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but donāt try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
** you can call it āNew way to configureā
*** you can call it āLegacy way to configureāThis is exactly the explanation I needed. Thanks for the clarifications.
Itās still unintuitive but, at least I understand some of the peculiarities a little better now.
Thank you!
- Why is there no
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See itās confusing!
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
See itās confusing!
Wait, is this correct? I thought the āsetup overrideā boolean decides whether the
Falcon BMS User.cfg
gets loaded atop theFalcon BMS.cfg
.If so, I guess I misunderstood some verbiage again.
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@jstnj It was worded backward. Itās like a double-negativeā¦ I think meant āif you launch without checking the box to launch without overridesā - vs - āif you launch with checking the box to launch without overridesā.
And no it has nothing to do with BMS loading the cfg files the way it does. BMS does what BMS does, even if you never run the Alt Launcher.
AL will append some stuff to your user.cfg file (the lines that are tagged with // SETUP OVERRIDE) when you first launch with overrides, but it never removes those, even if you subsequently set the checkboxā¦
Also be aware there are things like pilot-model and smart-scaling which are in the binary pop files, not the cfg files. Same rules apply.
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
See itās confusing!
Indeed (I never said it was not confusing )
My mistake, Thatās the other way .If you launch with setup overide (without checking the checkbox) --> Only launcher settings will be used
If you launch without setup overide (with checking the checkbox)ā> Only BMS 2D settings will be usedI definitly think the following is the starting point to understand all the rest.
Base statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings* with the Launcher** or in BMS settings***, but donāt try to mix both methods.
*includes axis mapping
**you can call it āNew way to configureā
***you can call it āLegacy way to configureā -
As an example of the deepening confusion, hereās directions on how to install Morphineās TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
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In short, the best way not to have problems with Alternate launcher is to do without it .
Yes, I know, I just put a piece in the trolling machine on this subject.
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As an example of the deepening confusion, hereās directions on how to install Morphineās TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
Itās a long thread ā what specifically? The initial instructions align with what we are saying ā basically it shows you how to set the pinky-shift magnitude in cfg, and load the keyfile yourself, within BMS, and not use the Alt Launcher at all.
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@airtex2019 said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As an example of the deepening confusion, hereās directions on how to install Morphineās TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
Itās a long thread ā what specifically? The initial instructions align with what we are saying ā basically it shows you how to set the pinky-shift magnitude in cfg, and load the keyfile yourself, within BMS, and not use the Alt Launcher at all.
Yes, I guess its just assuming you are NOT using the Launcher. If you did (use the launcher), you might find yourself in a confusing spot where things arent working.
āContradictā may have been an incorrect word. What I mean is, the Launcher is a bit confusing, the 2D keyfile mgmt is confusing, and the fact that there are multiple pathways to do them (but mixing them leads to terrible user experience), is collectively daunting.
As a 5+ year BMS user, I dont really have THAT much of a problem now that it was explained to meā¦but Iām just pointing out it could be a bit unintuitive and scary for new BMSers is all.
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As an example of the deepening confusion, hereās directions on how to install Morphineās TM Warthog profile for 4.37. The installation instructions contradict many of the things that various people have said, so, not sure what to think haha!:
https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/24128/morphine-s-profile-for-4-37
This may be my last post on this topic ā¦ @jstnj, are you joking ?
Morphineās explantations are EXCATLY of the kind of NOT using the launcher for settings. Everything is done manualy or through the BMS Setup, like we all did before Alternate Launcher was available.
So I phrase it differetly ā¦ the only thing you have to do : Do like you did before 4.37 and just check the box ālaunch without setup overideā before clicking āLaunchā.
Highlitghing what was said before :
If you launch with setup overide (without checking the checkbox) --> Only launcher settings will be used
If you launch without setup overide (with checking the checkbox)ā> Only BMS 2D settings will be usedBase statement with New (Alternate) Launcher :
Either you do your settings*
with the Launcher**or in BMS settings***, but donāt try to mix both methods.*includes axis mapping
**you can call it āNew way to configureā
***you can call it āLegacy way to configureāEDIT : After rereading Morphineās post, it is even worst to me, because he continues to use key emulation through target instead of directly using DX inputs.
I understand his point, like me he doesnāt want to go back to redoing his profile a ānew wayā, it is not a priority for him.He admit it himself :
Sooner or later, It would be easier to recreate this profile using DX keys. Iāve seen an interesting approach on the DCS boards that may allow us to take this profile beyond the 32 DX limit of target. Which would greatly simplify updates. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/144048-thrustmaster-combined-full-dx-mapping-extending-the-32-dx-buttons-limit/
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@jstnj said in Keyfile loading/saving is unintuitive (yes, i read the manual):
As a 5+ year BMS user, I dont really have THAT much of a problem now that it was explained to meā¦but Iām just pointing out it could be a bit unintuitive and scary for new BMSers is all.
New BMS users will use the AL and will not try to mess with BMS 2D Settings as we (as āoldā players) are doing.
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In short, the best way not to have problems with Alternate launcher is to do without it .
Yes, I know, I just put a piece in the trolling machine on this subject.
@Rouge1512 That is your own point of view.
I personnaly know few people who are trully enthusiastic about the usage of the Alternate/New Launcher and will never go back the old way.
I donāt use AL for my own settings, not because the launcher doesnāt work, but because I am too laisy to redo all me settings the new way. I am postponing it as it is a lower priority for me. -
@CheckPoint as a pretty āoldā BMS player, I embraced the AL back in 4.35 and havenāt looked back. You do a great job of pointing out a lot of the pros and cons here. My switch mostly grew of out the nightmare days of having whole handmade .keys nuked by having one of my many USB devices accidently unplugged back in say 4.32. There have been a few rare cases where I knew I might be able to do more with a .key manual edit than the AL, but I overall much prefer the GUI the Launcher provides, plus the easy theater switching and launcher for the other Falcon apps. These days with the over DX32 support as you point out that even Morphine says, I am moving even further away from keyboard commands which I now only really need for my DIY switch box and my Saitek Switch Panel.