Solved AI in dogfight is bad with guns
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AI is soo bad in low level and low speed not just dgf
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As someone who’s weekly quick “currency flying” pretty much no matter what is:
1.AAR TE to landing
2. 1v1 guns only match dogfight with Ace AI with 4 gen fighter, maybe a BVR match if time
3. IA air to ground weapons employment of each of the weapons on the jet in thatI agree that the Ace AI gunnery skills are plenty good enough once you start turning. I agree that the extreme low altitude is the hack against AI, but overall I feel they are pretty solid, especially when compared to what DCS at least used to be (although supposedly since I’ve played it they have updated AI to make them situationally decide rate vs radius, etc.) I don’t know how you make the AI anymore aggressive at that low of altitude and have a consistent code where they don’t lawn dart a lot.
I feel like it in some ways is the other way around with the low altitude. We tend to get false aggressive that low I think because the 100% PK of fighter vs. ground dogfight is a little skewed since we aren’t really going to die hitting the ground. I know there is a few times I’m scraping the trees that aren’t damaging yet in BMS and thinking in RL where would I have really stayed at. I think the AI’s “hard deck” isn’t that far off from a real life pilot, even with the life or death situation of a low altitude dogfight, there is the practical matter of still only being able to practically get so low.
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This is a known issue since 1998
Flying straight makes AI unable to aim
I’ve tried to improve many times this situation over the years but I failed miserably each time.
An entire rewrite will be needed possibly with a complete new approach.
Don’t expect to be soon though
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new approach completed
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@Mav-jp nice work! but… maybe it’s a little too good now? lol
I’m ok if a few of the enemy cyborgs’ bullets miss, some of the time…
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@Mav-jp said in AI in dogfight is bad with guns:
This is a known issue since 1998
I’ve tried to improve many times this situation over the years but I failed miserably each time.
An entire rewrite will be needed possibly with a complete new approach.
Don’t expect to be soon thoughMav-jp, 2 hours later:
After “many years” + 2 hours, I have made AI now super deadly whether you’re steady, moving, or running and screaming for mercy. Be careful what you ask for.
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for the wimps
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Thanks Mav that’s phenomenal. Cool that you put a random element in there.
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Slick coding @Mav-jp !
While we’re on the topic of AI BFM/WVR, there is a very easy and reproducible case where the ai always behaves the same.
Setup a regular 1v1 head on 10 nm via dogfight mode. Chose guns and older generation heat seekers. Mig29 ace for instance.
Now, when the ai is about 5-4 nm, on your nose, fire a heatseeker without valid lock, the Ai will react on this and defend, almost always making a diving right hand turn. What’s interesting is that after this initial turn, it flies straight and level for quite a long time, just being idle before resuming the fight. I can reproduce very frequent. This gives me a very predictable situation to take him out since the pattern is so reoccurring.
Initially I thought the AI pilot blacked out due to high g defensive maneuvers but I think something else is going on.
Just a little quirk I learned during the years.
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@airtex2019
Great meme, and what a fantastic movie.
It’s very true indeed and somewhat of a naughty cheat -
b0bl00i: “You telling me I can dodge radar-guided 20mm autocannon fire?”
Morpheus: “No b0bl00i … I’m telling you, that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.”
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I think I’m beginning to believe!
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This isn’t about guns, specifically, but it’s about something the AI doesn’t do in the Dogfight module. This is something I’ve always wondered about:
If I set up a 1v1 dogfight against an AI opponent, where we each only have guns and rear-aspect heaters, the AI pilot never launches a heat-seeking missile. In all the dozens (maybe hundreds) of times I’ve used the Dogfight module in this way, I’ve never had a heat-seeking missile launched at me.
Granted, when I fire an AIM-9 Papa at my opponent, it almost never hits and it eats their flares instead. I assume that’s simply a realistic model of the Papa’s RL performance. A few of my Fox-2 Papas hit, but only rarely. Still, it does sometimes hit my opponent. I’m surprised the AI pilots never try to shoot their heaters.
I usually set the Dogfight module so that the opponent is flying either a Fulcrum or a Flanker, and I set them to Ace.
When I set up a 1v1 BVR engagement, where we each have radar missiles and all-aspect / HOB heaters, they do fire heaters at me. And sometimes those HOB heaters hit me. We each fire a radar missile, crank, dodge each other’s shot, repeat, and then go in for HOB shots. If we both dodge those too (fairly rare), we go in for guns. All of that fits with what I’d expect in RL.
But a DPRK AI opponent in the Dogfight module, armed with only rear-aspect heaters? I’ve never seen one of those guys launch at me. I’ve always wondered if there’s a reason for it.
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Tried it Mig-21/23 are shooting rear aspect IR. Mig-29 Su-27 only have all aspect R-60 R-73. You’ll have to use some earlier aircraft with the older missiles if you want rear aspect IR.
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@b0bl00i said in AI in dogfight is bad with guns:
Slick coding @Mav-jp !
While we’re on the topic of AI BFM/WVR, there is a very easy and reproducible case where the ai always behaves the same.
Setup a regular 1v1 head on 10 nm via dogfight mode. Chose guns and older generation heat seekers. Mig29 ace for instance.
Now, when the ai is about 5-4 nm, on your nose, fire a heatseeker without valid lock, the Ai will react on this and defend, almost always making a diving right hand turn. What’s interesting is that after this initial turn, it flies straight and level for quite a long time, just being idle before resuming the fight. I can reproduce very frequent. This gives me a very predictable situation to take him out since the pattern is so reoccurring.
Initially I thought the AI pilot blacked out due to high g defensive maneuvers but I think something else is going on.
Just a little quirk I learned during the years.
thank you for the repro case, bug found
for now they just wait for the missile to die, i think they can evaluate if its tracking or not
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