Availability of JSOW AGM-154C
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@Stevie said in Availability of JSOW AGM-154C:
@Coral36 - the Navy JSOW C employs a BLU-109 warhead. The difference between the C (also known as “Unitary”) and the C1 is that the C1 has and IR seeker and can be target updated over datalink - hence the need for the AWW-13 for use of the C1.
Negative: the -B variant is equipped with BLU108 B/B canister (BLU109 is 2000lb, definitely too heavy for JSOW system that weights 1,065 pounds), and -C version is equipped with long-wave imaging infrared seeker and incorporate a 500lb two-stage blast/fragmentation warhead, and both are part of USAF inventory (that’s why they should be available for BMS F16’s). The -C1 is a development for the Navy and is equipped a GPS/INS guidance, terminal IR seeker and a dedicated Link 16 weapon data link and, as you said, needs a platform with AN/AWW-13 ADL
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@Coral36 - I’ve been involved with the development of the weapon for the USN (and even conducted the first free flight of the JSOW A for the USN). When we put the first Unitary together, it carried a Mk84 warhead, then the BLU-109, and I don’t think that’s changed for the Navy. I also don’t think the USN ever bought the JSOW B.
The C1s seeker is the same one as the SLAM E/R uses…and ALL JSOW variants are GPS enabled weapons.
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@Stevie said in Availability of JSOW AGM-154C:
@Coral36 - I’ve been involved with the development of the weapon for the USN (and even conducted the first free flight of the JSOW A for the USN). When we put the first Unitary together, it carried a Mk84 warhead, then the BLU-109, and I don’t think that’s changed for the Navy. I also don’t think the USN ever bought the JSOW B.
The C1s seeker is the same one as the SLAM E/R uses…and ALL JSOW variants are GPS enabled weapons.
Ok, just wanna say that my source is a USN datasheet (downloaded years ago for other purposes), and official USN-Naval Air Systems Command website. It’s not my intention to challenge your statements; if you worked on that system, probably you’d know something I don’t. But anyway, back to original topic, the -C variant can be carried on latest F16’s version, but somehow, actually that is not possible on our sim. Hope will be in the future. And btw, either AGM154 .DAT files share same features, except for “Particle sys files”; GP1000lb for -C version and Cluster Bomb for -A.
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@Coral36 You have to make changes to the DB for the 16 to carry the c variant.
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@Coral36 - Now I’m curious about differences between the B and C variants. If there are two warheads in a B, that certainly isn’t “unitary”, plus the BLU-109 would also be a far more effective warhead against any ship of size.
I’ll have to look up some weight data on the two - I do know a Hornet (any Hornet) can carry four of the heavier ones, a Viper may not be able to do so…but the VIper’s mission set is also different.
Back during the Development days there was a lot of theorizing about using the JSOW airframe to deliver anything that could fit in it to anyplace it needed to go…food, supplies, etc. So I wouldn’t be surprised at all by learning something new.
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@Stevie said in Availability of JSOW AGM-154C:
@Coral36 - Now I’m curious about differences between the B and C variants. If there are two warheads in a B, that certainly isn’t “unitary”, plus the BLU-109 would also be a far more effective warhead against any ship of size…
Forget about -B variant, 'cause the production was deferred and probably cancelled after the developing of -C variant.
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@Jumpstart5179 said in Availability of JSOW AGM-154C:
@Coral36 You have to make changes to the DB for the 16 to carry the c variant.
Thank you. Tried but still not available.
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@Coral36 you will need to do the following:
- Add the JSOW-C to the squadron stores
- Edit the hardpoint to accept the weapon
- Resupply the unit using Mission Commander
If you see the weapon in BMS then you did everything correctly
Remember that making changes to the editor can cause stability issues and can/will impact multiplayer play
- Add the JSOW-C to the squadron stores
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@SoBad Hi, SoBad. The procedure is as Jumpstart describes.
As for what’s in BMS, you have the A with the cluster munitions and the C with 1000lb GP warhead. Both are GPS-guided.
Interestingly enough, from what I’ve read the Navy’s C1 adds a datalink, like the SLAM/SLAM-ER. It would be interesting to see if we could model the C1. -
@drtbkj - what pod does the Viper use for Datalink? I know it’s not the AWW-13, which is what the USN uses. But a D/L pod is required to support the C1.
I should think it would be the same pods used for SLAM E/R…if the Viper can support SLAM E/R.
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@Jumpstart5179 - I don’t think a Harpoon requires Datalink. I know that SLAM and SLAM E/R were developed from the basic Harpoon, but I think that Datalink was the upgrade…for both.
I do however know that SLAM, SLAM E/R, and JSOW C require Datalink. If the Viper can support SLAM and/or SLAM E/R then it has to use a Datalink of some sort…I just know that the AWW-13 isn’t used by the USAF. So it would have to use another one.
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@Jumpstart5179 I Apologize to sent the message to a wrong guy. Anyway, Thank you so much for explanations, I really appreciate.
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@Coral36 it’s a blast.
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@Stevie Hi, Stevie. The most up to date info I have found is… https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f-16-fighting-falcon-multirole-fighter/?cf-view
It does not list the “podded” JSOW or SLAM/ER as current Viper ordinance, although as far back as 2004 Turkey was considering SLAM-ER’s on their Vipers. I haven’t been able to find which pod it would carry
I did find this- https://theaviationist.com/2017/12/05/two-edwards-based-f-16s-spotted-in-star-wars-canyon-with-mysterious-new-pod/
So, bottom line is, who knows what pod it would use.
But, getting back to SoBad’s original question, in BMS I see no reason you couldn’t put the JSOW A and C ( both GPS only) , the SLAM/ER, and the AWW-13 pod on the Viper. The OFM has done it for testing on the F-35C -
@Stevie said in Availability of JSOW AGM-154C:
@drtbkj - what pod does the Viper use for Datalink? I know it’s not the AWW-13, which is what the USN uses. But a D/L pod is required to support the C1.
I should think it would be the same pods used for SLAM E/R…if the Viper can support SLAM E/R.
F16’s can’t carry the -C1 variant of AGM154, that is currently developed for F/A-18E/F, F-35A/C
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@drtbkj - heh…I live a “few” miles downhill from Star Wars Canyon. A very well educated guess tells me that is NOT a Datalink pod. Also, given that the pic of the same pod on that A-7 dates to 1987, it ain’t “new”. But that’s all I’m going to speculate.
Using a JSOW C without Datalink would be an abject waste of ordnance. And frankly, I don’t think the JSOW C falls within an applicable Viper mission set, really.
I do think that the USAF does have a Datalink pod in inventory…but I have no idea what one it would be. If the Viper ever employed Walleye, it is probably that pod, or a variant of it. Pods evolve too…
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/aww-12.htm
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@Stevie agreed. I still can’t find any evidence that the USAF acquired the C/C-1. All media, news, open source docs, and references always say Navy in regards to it and it seems USAF went all in on JASSM.
That’s not to say C/C-1 hasn’t been tested by the USAF/LM/Raytheon at Edwards. But any reference to F-16s and the AGM-154Cs are for foreign air forces it seems. They are definitely supported by modern F-16s. So yes, BMS should support the C/C-1 but I can find no evidence that it is in USAF inventory and should not technically be in BMS USAF squadron stores, but to each his own with the power of your own edits detailed here.
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@Snake122 - that actually makes a lot more sense. And there are no real weapons test ranges at Edwards, so if it has been tested at all it would have been at Eglin.
Dunno if any FMS Customers ever bought JSOW, really…in any variant. Just because something is available doesn’t mean anyone buys it. THe T-45 retains the gun pod capability of the basic Hawk, but the USSN didn’t buy any gun pods, forex.
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US Arms sales list this (which may or may not be accurate)
Turkey AGM-154A-1 and C delivered 2007-2008
Poland AGM-154C Delivered 2007 - 2008
Greece AGM-154C Delivered 2009TuAF
HAF