Tomcatz ShipYard
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@Tom:
Hm… Ships?
I start to upload the files now- Just some minutes…
EDIT: Here it is:
http://rapidshare.com/files/1441872534/Tomcatz-Ships.zipClick to “Datei downloaden” , please (Datei is the German word for file)
That looks really great. If you make the effort to follow the modeling rules as you have done with the carrier lower LODs, all these could be included in the official build.
Wouldn’t that be great to have these beauties without making a voodoo dance? -
Tom,
I just wanted to say thank you for actually doing the lower LOD versions and whatnot for your models. We’d all love to see them in the default BMS installation for everyone, and making these extra LODs is one of the things the devs need to do so!
THANK YOU!!
-Wizard
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Tom, thank you for everything you done!!! This is great stuff!!!
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I think, in the end, if the BMS boy’z were to convert to DXM, then these issue’s would be moot.
LaDeeDa….LaDeeDa…!!!
Run’s and hide’s :mrgreen:
tired demer
(BTW your resistance to move a year ago was understood pending the release. I think you should have Carte Blanche now??)
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About having many LOD’s may I ask and comment here…
Browsing at the database I see many many LOD’s in distances where u can’t see nothing. So why have them there?
Also according to the above let’s say a Carrier is seen how far? 10 km’s or 20 with good clear weather conditions? I will go 15Km as an average that’s 9.3 miles and 49212ft. In the database in many cases u see LOD2 kicking in at 50000 or more often 100000 and above… u can’t see shit from this distance… not a vehicle or a building.
50000ft=15km or 9NM
100000ft=30km or 18-19NM
So having such values I believe it makes it heavier for the engine cause it tries to render something that will be like a needle’s nose. Needless to say it’s pointless.What is not there is when the model stops being viewable. Where we can define this?
Also why not have a LOD1 and maybe a second one LOD2 and then nothing else… cause the model is out of view.Also has anyone measured the impact of loading those differences? like the textures?
Dev’s say the textures must remain the same for every LOD level cause loading different has impact on the FPS. Why reloading and redrawing the 3D object ain’t also changing the 3D model doesn’t reload the textures? even if they are the same?About the models and LOD’s
First establish a rule based on what…Size and viewability. This rule doesn’t exist so every one does whatever likes thus LOD’s with above 100000ft for a bucket.
Then there can be a rule for the LOD’s.
Again this could be a 2 way rule.
Size and complexity.
Size is easy to understand and create a scale.
Complexity like polygon’s and how many shadows it creates.
Ok polygon’s are easy to count… Shadows??? are u crazy?
Yes I am.
I believe if u put a model that creates lot’s of shadows… like a tree (not as in falcon trees but complex real model with branches and leaves) only one tree can kill the FPS… why except the poly’s, the engine has to draw the shadows too so double work… obvious you’d say…
How did I came to the conclusion? putting on the scene a building with more poly’s than a tree model had normal FPS putting a single tree with less poly’s then the building killed the FPS down to a single number.
The same applies to all our models. So a carrier that has lot’s of stuff hanging out of the main body of the model sure makes lot’s of shadows…I also believe that cutting the bottom of the models has the same effect… why? cutting the bottom tells the engine to draw a shadow inside the model base. If not then the shadow is only on the outside??? Not very sure on this, but I see the shadow inside the building on the ground.
Also strange: the shadow doesn’t end on the terrain. If u have elevated terrain and go under it the shadow of the model - object is shown under the terrain also. I don’t know if this is a bug and the shadow is calculated two times… thus eats more FPS.
So my conclusion is that only the poly’s rule and a simple not defined rule for LOD’s isn’t enough for the job.
Now the BMS team is responsible to establish those rules I believe and we have to follow them and respect them. -
Can someone briefly explain how to install? I guess the .dds go in textures folder, but what about the lod files?
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Can someone briefly explain how to install? I guess the .dds go in textures folder, but what about the lod files?
Use Lodeditor find the same vehicle - ship press Normal then switch to replace (u will see a button on the right side saying edit press it it will change set it to replace) hit number 1 button on the LOD area and select the lod1 lod file do the same for lod2 but hit 2 button same for 3 by hitting the 3 number button. after each replace hit the update button. then go back and hit the update button on the right area. Exit LodEditor u are done go fly.
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May I add to the above about the LOD’s… and the shadows…
I did another test on the 30B BURB1 objective and replaced office 967 with some trees… some hundreds of trees 2-3 times those hundreds of trees, all of them as an object. The trees where as in Falcon trees, 3-4 vertical planes with a texture and transparency.
On stock objective the polys where much less compared to the trees I added but the FPS had huge difference. with the trees it was more. That got my attention as I expected the opposite to happen.
The only reason I could find was that making trees that way results to almost no shadow…
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With the carrier, LOD0 in orbit view I get ~35 FPS here, with the other detailed ships I get ~60-65 adn normal FPS is ~90-95, empty sea, only me and 3 F-18 wingman in empty TE. I guess carrier 1st LOD is still too heavy for sim… is the model optimized?
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So this is great.
what u have at Kimpo? -
Don’t know about Kimpo… I’ll check soon what I get there. But 35 is IMHO too heavy. I bet it can get optimized a bit or loose some “none-critical” details.
And of course, no words on quality, the carrier and the other ships, simply stunning!
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Use Lodeditor find the same vehicle - ship press Normal then switch to replace (u will see a button on the right side saying edit press it it will change set it to replace) hit number 1 button on the LOD area and select the lod1 lod file do the same for lod2 but hit 2 button same for 3 by hitting the 3 number button. after each replace hit the update button. then go back and hit the update button on the right area. Exit LodEditor u are done go fly.
Hey Arty, trying this, inTom’s files, there are LOD2.Ticonderoga.LOD, LOD3.Ticonderoga.LOD and Ticonderoga.LOD Is the last one the Lod1 file you refer to above? Its not called LOD1.Ticonderoga and I dont want to muck anything up…I get the principle OK, just not sure if I am altering or about to alter the correct files…
Thanks!
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there are LOD2.Ticonderoga.LOD, LOD3.Ticonderoga.LOD and Ticonderoga.LOD Is the last one the Lod1 file you refer to above?
I haven’t looked at it or installed it but most likely if it doesn’t have a LOD # then it is LOD1.
RAM22
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So this is great.
I disagree… it’s maybe sounds normal because carrier is usually at relatively empty vicinity but still, that is 1 object man, 1 object which cripple my system FPS (not so easy to do) in orbit view. And again I’m not complaining about quality, or say that model doesn’t need to be beautiful but I’m sure that 3D experts can optimize it a bit more, give up some unnecessary polys which are unseen (for example), give up some details or change some parts to have less polys while keeping high-quality shape… I’m no expert but you know what I mean.
I’m running MS quality 2 and force AFx16 via Nvidia driver, but my FPS are usually much higher than 35. And I don’t mean 35 is what you get with the carrier, its in orbit view which is pretty close, from cockpit flying close to it, I got ~40-60 depend on distance and I guess depend on which carrier LOD was on.
what u have at Kimpo?
At Kimpo here with same GFX settings:
On runway looking at most detailed buildings area - 40
Flying towards AB, distance ~1-2NM, cockpit view - ~55-60
Same with TGP on - ~35 - TGP does cripple a lot in Kimpo, I guess the double rendering with all the objects does load on the card.But you know Kimpo is a huge area with dozens ob objects… and yes I know carrier is also just a base to take-off from but its a single object…
Bottom line I’m sure it can be pushed to get some higher frames.
@Tom thanx a lot for taking into attention what we suggested Please, you made lower LODs so you have the will, please get in contact with BMS/3rd-party modelers that can help you change/modify/smooth/optimize/whatever you guys do to get all this stuff DB standard and finally into DB. This will be a huge boost to the poor 3D state of naval vessels in the sim
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@Tom thanx a lot for taking into attention what we suggested Please, you made lower LODs so you have the will, please get in contact with BMS/3rd-party modelers that can help you change/modify/smooth/optimize/whatever you guys do to get all this stuff DB standard and finally into DB. This will be a huge boost to the poor 3D state of naval vessels in the sim
It’s called chop off… :rofl:
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About having many LOD’s may I ask and comment here…
Browsing at the database I see many many LOD’s in distances where u can’t see nothing. So why have them there?
Also according to the above let’s say a Carrier is seen how far? 10 km’s or 20 with good clear weather conditions? I will go 15Km as an average that’s 9.3 miles and 49212ft. In the database in many cases u see LOD2 kicking in at 50000 or more often 100000 and above… u can’t see shit from this distance… not a vehicle or a building.
50000ft=15km or 9NM
100000ft=30km or 18-19NM
So having such values I believe it makes it heavier for the engine cause it tries to render something that will be like a needle’s nose. Needless to say it’s pointless.Arty, we never said, that the current DB is perfect. We can even says it’s totally porked. All the old stuff needs to be checked and fixed, but if you have browsed the whole DB, you can see it’s a huge task (which is in progress).
What we want, is not to reproduce the errors from the past and have new models that are built in an clever way. -
@Tom thanx a lot for taking into attention what we suggested
+1000! Really nice to be able to have that beauty for the next few years on Falcon4!
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@Buzzz thanx for the info
I also started something like this as I saw many strange values there like 100000 in LOD distance value… many models that are just wireframes with 100000 values… and others like LOD1 perfect and other LODs totally different model… as u said porked…
R u using any new tool or the known?
A good speed way I found was desktop macro usage… recorder mouse clicks and keyboard inputs to minimize user input… lol
If Lodeditor had keyboard commands for every button it would be much easier to use a macro recorder…
After some about 1.000 clean up edits I gave up cause between edits for my models and switches I fubared the database and had to start from scratch… well I gave up and focused on my projects…
I wish u curage on the task… very much needed and very painful my thoughts r with u…
Also the most painful must be that only one person can do those changes at a time u can’t split the job and then merge them… (I think so…???)