A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.
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ewildcat already won this thread by suggesting to use the press/release bindings to effectively make a poorman’s auto-close button
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@airtex2019
Yeah, I have no problem with that, just sayin’. That these days ppl are not as “constructive” as 20yrs before.The solution is also fine, I mean, I don’t have to use it, and I ain’t forbidding anyone.
Cheers
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@white_fang said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
TM Cougar throttle has T9 and T10 buttons for operating speedbrakes, T9 is spring loaded for opening & T10 is toggle for closing.
And it can be just Closing (Retracting) it doesn’t necessary need to be Toggle%$#@!!
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre While that collection of hardware is impressive, I don’t understand why there is a need for the callback request.
That’s fine, you don’t understand what I wrote earlier, you don’t have some of the hardware I use, that’s also fine. I’ll wait for airtex2019.
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre While that collection of hardware is impressive, I don’t understand why there is a need for the callback request.
That’s fine, you don’t understand what I wrote earlier, you don’t have some of the hardware I use, that’s also fine. I’ll wait for airtex2019.
No need to be condescending. What I don’t understand is how you can have all of that gear and seem to struggle with something like correct speedbrake implementation. I’ve only used TM WH and TM Cougar for my throttles but I don’t think Virpil or WinWing would fail at something as basic as a correct speedbrake switch.
@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@white_fang said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
TM Cougar throttle has T9 and T10 buttons for operating speedbrakes, T9 is spring loaded for opening & T10 is toggle for closing.
And it can be just Closing (Retracting) it doesn’t necessary need to be Toggle%$#@!!
I believe what @white_fang is saying is that the switch is spring loaded (momentary) for the open callback AFBrakesOut and is toggle (normal operation – they are called “toggle switches” after all) for the close callback AFBrakesIn. This is different from the toggle callback AFBrakesToggle.
@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
I would like to request the developers to add an additional Callback for the SPD Brake functionality, specifically a single joystick button press for the full closure of the SPD Brake.
This already exists – it is the AFBrakesIn callback.
I understand that the SPD Brake Toggle can be used for this purpose, but sometimes with multiple openings and closings of the SPD Brake, the Toggle function gets confused on some joystick buttons.
That’s the whole point of the switch state callbacks – there is ZERO confusion – AFBrakesIn will never, ever, ever be confused with AFBrakesOut as they are specific to switch states.
Even on my F-16 throttle replica (by Winwing), it would be better to have the SPD Brake Open in spring load position and SPD Brake Close Completely on the opposite side.
Err, yeah. Isn’t it set up that way? If it isn’t, then you’ve not set it up properly.
It’s surprising that this hasn’t been implemented yet, at least for cockpit builders.
Switch state callbacks have been implemented for years. Even the old F4.0 had it, although I don’t know if it was called this way or worked the way it works now. I’ve never flew F4.0, but suffice to say that even back in BMS 4.32, the switch state callbacks were a thing. I’m sure the Falcon historians in this community can shed more light on this.
For other HOTAS systems I imagine SPD Brake Open Completely callback would be very useful too. At least, please consider the possibility of definitely adding a more realistic SPD Brake Close Completely callback to use instead of Toggle.
The real switch is not an “open completely” affair as the pilot may only need partial brake effect. It is also not a “close completely” affair as the pilot may only need less brake effect, not zero brake effect. I cannot fathom the idea that you think the BMS devs have not implemented a realistic SPD BRK functionality after all this years of game development.
TL;DR - I believe this is a case of PICNIC and that perhaps you are using a .key file that does not have all the callbacks you need.
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This is all running in circles. Retract (completely). ))
Thanks.
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
This is all running in circles. Retract (completely). ))
Thanks.
No, not running in circles at all. I think we’ve now identified the issue at hand here and … well, I’ll just leave it at that.
PICNIC
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Just saying, on my dozen year old X65 throttle I have speed brakes mapped on one of the hats, I could use this purposed callback!
The captured switch is one of the things I miss most about the Cougar and find myself sometimes not getting the brakes fully closed with a momentary switch. But the occasional multi engine flying and extra controls etc. the similar but extra hats and buttons of it compared to the TM TQS or WinWing plus the force sensitive stick keeps me using the X65F until it and my spares either die or Windows stops supporting them.
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@Snake122 Are there no toggle switches on the X65 throttle that you could map to the brakes?
Here’s an interesting experiment that might work for you – map the open speedbrakes button to the AFBrakesOut callback but then map the button you want for close speedbrakes to the AFBrakesToggle callback. If the brakes are even slightly open, the toggle callback will fully close the brakes. Obviously, if the brakes are closed, the toggle callback will fully open the brakes
But it may be a perfect solution for those without a toggle switch available, or only have buttons.
Of course, the downside is that you cannot partially close your speedbrakes as the toggle callback is an all-or-nothing affair AFAIK.
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
This is all running in circles. Retract (completely). ))
Thanks.
No, not running in circles at all. I think we’ve now identified the issue at hand here and … well, I’ll just leave it at that.
PICNIC
Atco, I like your enthusiasm, especially when you start explaining to me how callbacks actually work on equipment you don’t have.
BIOS
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
Atco, I like your enthusiasm, especially when you start explaining to me how callbacks actually work on equipment you don’t have.
I’m explaining to you how the callbacks work. These allows you to do things — like replicate how the real thing works — regardless of what hardware you use. Unfortunately, making it work on YOUR hardware is YOUR problem, not mine.
I am amazed that you continue to show your attitude for someone who doesn’t know how to map a speedbrake switch correctly.
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
Unfortunately, making it work on YOUR hardware is YOUR problem, not mine.
That’s exactly why I didn’t ask anything from you here in this thread, with all due respect for you for helping with other issues
Thanks.
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
That’s exactly why I didn’t ask anything from you here in this thread,
Are you also confused at how forums work??
with all due respect for you for helping with other issues
That’s not how “with all due respect” means, nor how it is shown. Your attitude at the people who develop this game and others that come in to help you with your issues show zero respect at all.
I wager my suggestion to @Snake122 in the post above is the functionality you’re looking for. Wind your neck in and go give it a try.
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
That’s exactly why I didn’t ask anything from you here in this thread,
Are you also confused at how forums work??
with all due respect for you for helping with other issues
That’s not how “with all due respect” means, nor how it is shown. Your attitude at the people who develop this game and others that come in to help you with your issues show zero respect at all.
I wager my suggestion to @Snake122 in the post above is the functionality you’re looking for. Wind your neck in and go give it a try.
It’s like talking to an empty drum, I swear! I’ve already tried all of this even before starting this thread, don’t you understand?
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
Here’s an interesting experiment that might work for you – map the open speedbrakes button to the AFBrakesOut callback but then map the button you want for close speedbrakes to the AFBrakesToggle callback. If the brakes are even slightly open, the toggle callback will fully close the brakes. Obviously, if the brakes are closed, the toggle callback will fully open the brakes
I have mapped it that way before. I don’t like that I can accidentally throw them out that way you describe. Under duress it’s too easy to do. I’d rather have partial open from not getting them closed than complete open unintentionally.
No toggle switch under my thumb, I could use one on my pinky, but feels unnatural after all these years. There is a 4 position slider, but I use that for the dogfight switch.
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
It’s like talking to an empty drum, I swear! I’ve already tried all of this even before starting this thread, don’t you understand?
And I’m supposed to know what you’ve tried and what you haven’t? LOL.
I hope you get the solution you so clearly need.@Snake122 said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
I have mapped it that way before. I don’t like that I can accidentally throw them out that way you describe. Under duress it’s too easy to do. I’d rather have partial open from not getting them closed than complete open unintentionally.
No toggle switch under my thumb, I could use one on my pinky, but feels unnatural after all these years. There is a 4 position slider, but I use that for the dogfight switch.
Are you using 2 buttons for this at least? That way, a small tap or two on open then a tap on close will give you guaranteed closed speed brakes.
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
Are you using 2 buttons for this at least? That way, a small tap or two on open then a tap on close will give you guaranteed closed speed brakes.
Yes, but the problem is with your suggested mapping if I accidentally double tap or had them closed when I though they were open (both easy to do in BFM at times) they are going fully out. It’s only guaranteed of you are in sync or take some time to open. Yes it honestly rarely happens when you are completely out of sync, but in the moments it happens it is almost always a really bad time for it even to give it the tap it open some to then guarantee close. A brakes fully closed callback gives the same functionality of the set it and forget position of the real switch too.
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@Snake122
I see. To guarantee a closed brake, you’ll have to tap it open then close it again, or program it so that pressing the close button will fire one open command then one close command – which I think is the best way and no need to worry about being “in sync” or anything like that at all.Having a “fully closed” callback is just a bandaid to compensate with different hardware. Using this callback will mean that you cannot just reduce the brake effect slightly, you will have to start over each time. Remember that the brakes only really open or close if the switch is held in that position. A correct switch is 3-way with momentary for open and captive/toggle for close.
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@Atlas because of the real life switch setting putting brakes out incremently (momentary) is more important than retracting them incremently (option of captive toggle to retract and leave it so the definitely get shut). Obviously incremental retract can be done with the actual switch with focus on using the switch carefully, but for me the sacrifice of the careful use for the reptile brain option under Gs that they value with switch function of the set it and forget it held retract setting is more important to me. I can be careful on extending if needed because I’ll be judging overtake actively or just hold it to be open on an nasty overshoot, but as they say, “airspeed is life” so getting the smash back is more the gross motor function.
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@Atlas I have 3 buttons on the base of my cheapo stick.
1 => open incrementally, while held (AFBrakesOut)
2 => close incrementally, while held (AFBrakesIn)
3 …for the 3rd button I used to assign to toggle (AFBrakesToggle) but that is both unrealistic and error-prone, as everyone has already beat to death.
now I’ve changed the 3rd button to do what ewildcat suggested
onPress => AFBrakesOut
onRelease => AFBrakesToggle – because toggle always acts as auto-close when the brakes are > 0% openit’s sounds like nothing but it’s amazing what a little quality of life improvement that is (maybe just for those of us with cheapo hotas that don’t have a realistic locking speedbrake switch)