A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.
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@Boxer said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
I believe that completely addresses the need OP mentioned, if I understood it.
@Boxer: Hey, please don’t interfere with airtex2019, he did promise after all! Over 20+ years of diving into Falcon 4, RP, AF, FF, BMS, I’ve never asked for a single special callback. Well, if you don’t want this callback – that’s fine, I can program any switch and button in any way I want on my joysticks. I recall in the 87th Stray Dogs I even once made an AutoHotkey script for a fully automated start-up procedure, where buttons on the ICP and everywhere else in the cockpit were clicking and flipping themselves rapidly and you would, like, just seat and look around amazed lol. (I remember some had a good laugh about it on the forum). It’s just that I don’t like the fact that in the Closed position, unlike the spring-loaded Open position, the switch will continue to send “SPEED BRAKE Switch – Close” DX button the whole time, until/if I remember to flip the switch to the neutral. Yes, I know I can use “SPEED BRAKE Switch – Toggle” instead and it should work right on my Winwing 16EX Throttle, but, for example, the 2-position “T” keys on the VPC MongoosT-50CM3 don’t work well with the “- Toggle” callback, and I don’t like it either. So, I thought it wouldn’t hurt to have it “Retract Full” like in the other sim. airtex2019 said it right earlier - no need to use a cannon (Boxer) to shoot (my) minor sparrows here Anyway, thanks to all involved for your interested attention to the little requests of the users ))
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@bbostjan said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre Dude what sim are you playing? Some sort of space station flying?
You’d need to grow tentacles to operate all your controllers.
Haha, that’s a good one!
Nah, nothing fancy, just a couple of usual suspects.
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Boxer: Hey, please don’t interfere with airtex2019, he did promise after all!
Well all of us working on code pick our own priorities (more or less, it’s a hobby thing after all). Aitex has plenty of things on his plate that are probably more compelling to spend time on than this one though…especially if…
It’s just that I don’t like the fact that in the Closed position, unlike the spring-loaded Open position, the switch will continue to send “SPEED BRAKE Switch – Close” DX button the whole time, until/if I remember to flip the switch to the neutral.
What does that mean, “I don’t like…”?? I’m curious what there is not to like here. These buttons are event based so having the switch captive in the close position (electrically “ON” the whole time) does not consume any meaningful resources in Windows or the game context. Were you thinking that it’s hammering on the game code for attention the whole time?? Not so.
If that is what you were thinking then hopefully the above sheds some light. But would also make me want to actively lobby AGAINST adding a callback…doing something for the wrong reason seems like a bad idea. I do think it’s pointless to add what is essentially a redundant alias for something you can already do. And in fact you are trying to avoid the obvious default way to achieve what you want for a potentially bogus reason.
What’s more, even if you do have a different reason not to use a DX mapping on the captive switch position, your need can be satisfied NOW without waiting for anyone to code up that alias…but if you don’t want that form of help then I’m not sure what to say.
Nice collection of goodies by the way. Love the modular set up on the profile mounted components – that’s a really neat-o idea!
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@Boxer said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
What does that mean, “I don’t like…”?? I’m curious what there is not to like here. These buttons are event based so having the switch captive in the close position (electrically “ON” the whole time) does not consume any meaningful resources in Windows or the game context. Were you thinking that it’s hammering on the game code for attention the whole time?? Not so.
That’s exactly what I thought, especially because between Windows and AL + BMS, I also have the Joystick Gremlin Macro, which keeps the DX button (SPEED BRAKE Switch - Close) in a pressed state. If not so, it’s fine, let it be (winking to airtex2019, thumbs up).
As for ‘I don’t like Toggle’, as I already mentioned, T-switches on my VPC MongoosT-50CM3 Throttle don’t always work correctly with this command. Here, I’m more concerned not about myself, but about my son-in-law, who has the same VPC set, but who has very little time to fiddle with such nuances of hardware and software (being LTC in the Rolling Along).
Thanks.
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@Sabre While that collection of hardware is impressive, I don’t understand why there is a need for the callback request. Don’t any of those speedbrake switches work like the real speedbrake switch? I mean I see a WH throttle and an F-16 throttle, those should have the correctly-operated speedbrakes. Not sure about the other throttles but I would be surprised if they didn’t.
Don’t get me wrong here — if it is indeed a need for a new callback, then by all means. However, if a solution can be found quicker or perhaps this is just a confusion with callback mapping or switch function, then we don’t really need to reinvent the wheel.
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Yeah, I agree also. As @Boxer said “Department of Redundancy Department”.
What people are forgetting these days that all these sticks/throttles are “Programmable” - not sure anymore what that word means, but ok, huh ?
TM Cougar throttle has T9 and T10 buttons for operating speedbrakes, T9 is spring loaded for opening & T10 is toggle for closing.
I’m pretty sure that with minimal effort you can mimic those functions to ANY JOY BUTTON via “whatever programming logic” in BMS and/or “whatchacalled stick programming software”.
I know I can make it work in “Foxy” like a joke. = on press of T99 do in(shift b), hold for 10sec , out(shift b) - even now especially you can use directinput button respectively, without need of keyboard shortcuts, button 27(28 dec) - but is matter of personal preference of key-config
2kopeykes
Cheers
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ewildcat already won this thread by suggesting to use the press/release bindings to effectively make a poorman’s auto-close button
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@airtex2019
Yeah, I have no problem with that, just sayin’. That these days ppl are not as “constructive” as 20yrs before.The solution is also fine, I mean, I don’t have to use it, and I ain’t forbidding anyone.
Cheers
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@white_fang said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
TM Cougar throttle has T9 and T10 buttons for operating speedbrakes, T9 is spring loaded for opening & T10 is toggle for closing.
And it can be just Closing (Retracting) it doesn’t necessary need to be Toggle%$#@!!
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre While that collection of hardware is impressive, I don’t understand why there is a need for the callback request.
That’s fine, you don’t understand what I wrote earlier, you don’t have some of the hardware I use, that’s also fine. I’ll wait for airtex2019.
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre While that collection of hardware is impressive, I don’t understand why there is a need for the callback request.
That’s fine, you don’t understand what I wrote earlier, you don’t have some of the hardware I use, that’s also fine. I’ll wait for airtex2019.
No need to be condescending. What I don’t understand is how you can have all of that gear and seem to struggle with something like correct speedbrake implementation. I’ve only used TM WH and TM Cougar for my throttles but I don’t think Virpil or WinWing would fail at something as basic as a correct speedbrake switch.
@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@white_fang said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
TM Cougar throttle has T9 and T10 buttons for operating speedbrakes, T9 is spring loaded for opening & T10 is toggle for closing.
And it can be just Closing (Retracting) it doesn’t necessary need to be Toggle%$#@!!
I believe what @white_fang is saying is that the switch is spring loaded (momentary) for the open callback AFBrakesOut and is toggle (normal operation – they are called “toggle switches” after all) for the close callback AFBrakesIn. This is different from the toggle callback AFBrakesToggle.
@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
I would like to request the developers to add an additional Callback for the SPD Brake functionality, specifically a single joystick button press for the full closure of the SPD Brake.
This already exists – it is the AFBrakesIn callback.
I understand that the SPD Brake Toggle can be used for this purpose, but sometimes with multiple openings and closings of the SPD Brake, the Toggle function gets confused on some joystick buttons.
That’s the whole point of the switch state callbacks – there is ZERO confusion – AFBrakesIn will never, ever, ever be confused with AFBrakesOut as they are specific to switch states.
Even on my F-16 throttle replica (by Winwing), it would be better to have the SPD Brake Open in spring load position and SPD Brake Close Completely on the opposite side.
Err, yeah. Isn’t it set up that way? If it isn’t, then you’ve not set it up properly.
It’s surprising that this hasn’t been implemented yet, at least for cockpit builders.
Switch state callbacks have been implemented for years. Even the old F4.0 had it, although I don’t know if it was called this way or worked the way it works now. I’ve never flew F4.0, but suffice to say that even back in BMS 4.32, the switch state callbacks were a thing. I’m sure the Falcon historians in this community can shed more light on this.
For other HOTAS systems I imagine SPD Brake Open Completely callback would be very useful too. At least, please consider the possibility of definitely adding a more realistic SPD Brake Close Completely callback to use instead of Toggle.
The real switch is not an “open completely” affair as the pilot may only need partial brake effect. It is also not a “close completely” affair as the pilot may only need less brake effect, not zero brake effect. I cannot fathom the idea that you think the BMS devs have not implemented a realistic SPD BRK functionality after all this years of game development.
TL;DR - I believe this is a case of PICNIC and that perhaps you are using a .key file that does not have all the callbacks you need.
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This is all running in circles. Retract (completely). ))
Thanks.
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
This is all running in circles. Retract (completely). ))
Thanks.
No, not running in circles at all. I think we’ve now identified the issue at hand here and … well, I’ll just leave it at that.
PICNIC
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Just saying, on my dozen year old X65 throttle I have speed brakes mapped on one of the hats, I could use this purposed callback!
The captured switch is one of the things I miss most about the Cougar and find myself sometimes not getting the brakes fully closed with a momentary switch. But the occasional multi engine flying and extra controls etc. the similar but extra hats and buttons of it compared to the TM TQS or WinWing plus the force sensitive stick keeps me using the X65F until it and my spares either die or Windows stops supporting them.
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@Snake122 Are there no toggle switches on the X65 throttle that you could map to the brakes?
Here’s an interesting experiment that might work for you – map the open speedbrakes button to the AFBrakesOut callback but then map the button you want for close speedbrakes to the AFBrakesToggle callback. If the brakes are even slightly open, the toggle callback will fully close the brakes. Obviously, if the brakes are closed, the toggle callback will fully open the brakes
But it may be a perfect solution for those without a toggle switch available, or only have buttons.
Of course, the downside is that you cannot partially close your speedbrakes as the toggle callback is an all-or-nothing affair AFAIK.
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
This is all running in circles. Retract (completely). ))
Thanks.
No, not running in circles at all. I think we’ve now identified the issue at hand here and … well, I’ll just leave it at that.
PICNIC
Atco, I like your enthusiasm, especially when you start explaining to me how callbacks actually work on equipment you don’t have.
BIOS
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
Atco, I like your enthusiasm, especially when you start explaining to me how callbacks actually work on equipment you don’t have.
I’m explaining to you how the callbacks work. These allows you to do things — like replicate how the real thing works — regardless of what hardware you use. Unfortunately, making it work on YOUR hardware is YOUR problem, not mine.
I am amazed that you continue to show your attitude for someone who doesn’t know how to map a speedbrake switch correctly.
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
Unfortunately, making it work on YOUR hardware is YOUR problem, not mine.
That’s exactly why I didn’t ask anything from you here in this thread, with all due respect for you for helping with other issues
Thanks.
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@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
That’s exactly why I didn’t ask anything from you here in this thread,
Are you also confused at how forums work??
with all due respect for you for helping with other issues
That’s not how “with all due respect” means, nor how it is shown. Your attitude at the people who develop this game and others that come in to help you with your issues show zero respect at all.
I wager my suggestion to @Snake122 in the post above is the functionality you’re looking for. Wind your neck in and go give it a try.
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@Atlas said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
@Sabre said in A new callback request for SPD BRAKE functionality.:
That’s exactly why I didn’t ask anything from you here in this thread,
Are you also confused at how forums work??
with all due respect for you for helping with other issues
That’s not how “with all due respect” means, nor how it is shown. Your attitude at the people who develop this game and others that come in to help you with your issues show zero respect at all.
I wager my suggestion to @Snake122 in the post above is the functionality you’re looking for. Wind your neck in and go give it a try.
It’s like talking to an empty drum, I swear! I’ve already tried all of this even before starting this thread, don’t you understand?