Shooting CATM-120
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Hi all
The other day I was flying a DCA training session with a unit member. We were to shoot at a human RED AIR and was to do this in a “controlled” environment using the CATM-120. We have used this function in Balkan theater when using U1. We are currently only using U2, but the missile did not act as it did in U1, and no launch cue was shown. When master ARM was set to ARM, the missile came of the rail and hit the RED AIR and gave him some damage. Is anybody else having this issue? We are flying Baltic theater build as a stand alone theater, so my initial thought was that some files could be missing, but I have checked and all is similar to any other theater I have installed.
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A CATM missile - of any kind - cannot come off the rail because it does not have a rocket motor…so this is as things should be, and is hopefully a fix…if it has ever worked any other way.
What you want to use for Training would be an ACMI pod - this pod should model weapon fly-out, but still not cause any damage…if modeled correctly. What you need to do for Training is to establish rules for valid shots, and take your shots IAW those rules. That’s how it’s done in RL.
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Actually when you are firing a CATM missile an invisible missile leaves the rail. A dedicated sound (something like a “bip”) is produced when the missile is off the rail.
There is a condition that determines if a weapon is catm or not in the data (text) file of each weapon in the misdata folder.
All the info above is for falcon only obviously.
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I know there is supposed to be a beep sound. But that never occured and that is why I initially wrote my first post. I also know that the missile should not leave the aircraft. As stated in my first post we had this working on U1 in the Balkan theater, so we have had success before using this method. I have compared files and all is looking okay with my version of the Baltic theater and other theaters in the misdata folder. I’m trying to figure out why it does not work as expected. That’s all…
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Perhaps the dedicated sound clips for shooting and get shot are missing.
Compare the two respective files for sounds. I think the path is Data/sounds/common.
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@Ironman3 - not in RL. You should get a missile gone from your inventory, and other indications, but the missile does/will NOT actually leave the rail - it can’t…because a CATM does not have a motor.
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Believe me I am well aware of it! LOL
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Before CATM missiles, what we used to do was load “actual” missiles, then use the MASTER ARM - SIM mode. This gave all the symbology and cues, but of course, pickling didn’t do anything.
CATM are supposed to be CApTive Missiles. I guess it is bugged, or not modelled correctly.
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The CATMs in BMS I believe were first made for the Korean training theater that hasn’t came out for 4.37 or maybe the CATMs included somewhat took over that project. They were for Virtual Fighter Squadrons that wanted to do more realistic/higher volume training. CATMs allowed for shot validation and feedback, something that takes ACMI ranges and lots of debriefing in RL. So the beeps of getting hit allowed for feedback and BMS ACMI recordings of hits. This also allowed these groups to do realistic regenerations of flights so that you could still have a valuable training evolution, practice BFM/ACM/BVR and know you hit/got hit and still get an AAR and landing in instead of being shot down. I believe @AviationPlus did a few videos with that theater and may still use CATMs
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@Snake122 We, at the 6th, along with AP just went through 2 weeks of ACM/BVR with Aggressor F-16s and Eagles. This was in the vanilla KTO. The Vipers had CATMs and Eagles had live fire as they haven’t got them yet in the update. The Eagle drivers would hear the hit sounds. The Viper Drivers had to have invulnerability on to keep from getting swacked by the live 120s…
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@Snake122 said in Shooting CATM-120:
The CATMs in BMS I believe were first made for the Korean training theater that hasn’t came out for 4.37 or maybe the CATMs included somewhat took over that project. They were for Virtual Fighter Squadrons that wanted to do more realistic/higher volume training. CATMs allowed for shot validation and feedback, something that takes ACMI ranges and lots of debriefing in RL. So the beeps of getting hit allowed for feedback and BMS ACMI recordings of hits. This also allowed these groups to do realistic regenerations of flights so that you could still have a valuable training evolution, practice BFM/ACM/BVR and know you hit/got hit and still get an AAR and landing in instead of being shot down. I believe @AviationPlus did a few videos with that theater and may still use CATMs
I see! Very nice!!! Thanks for explaning their purpose within BMS.
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Hmm.
The real life stuff is to try as far a possible to ‘simulate’ the tactics or using these weapons, to improve on pilot skills, and remove the risk to pilots, or the cost of weapons. We are fortunate that we are ‘in a simulation’ and so can simulate these weapons by using live weapons in the sim. I not sure I see the sense of not using the real thing in BMS with/without invulnerability enabled.
Just my 0.02$ -
@Tiger-0 - and I’ve heard of at least one Navy F4 crew shooting down their friendly playmate doing this…the splashed crew survived, thought they had a failure of some sort, and didn’t even know they’d been actually shot.
The shooter apologized profusely once they were all back on the CV, and US crews don’t do this…anymore.
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With the real thing here in BMS you can’t load more than one missile per station (although it can be done and was used back in 4.36).
In training environment where you need more weapons for more than one setup CATMs are the solution. Of course you must count and have discipline about the amount of weapons you can use for each setup.