Multiplayer question: Multiple laser emitters recommended?
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@Stevie actually yes, but… no
TGP can definitely see the laser spot through the clouds, same for LGBs:
Quite the opposite for the AGM-65L:
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@Foxtrot701 - I’d write all this up as a bug for correction…there are a LOT of compounding things wrong in these pictures.
…for one, the LST could be tracking the scatter off the cloud…as you’ve circled there is a TD box there, but it’s very, very faint…which sort of indicates possibility of this as the problem. But if it is tracking cloud scatter the track should be erratic/wandering.
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@Stevie the fact is that the laser in the first two pictures was fired far behind the cloud from the JTAC (this can be replicated in the JTAC training mission). It could not be reflected from the cloud.
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@Foxtrot701 try lasing through thick overcast layers rather than light cumulus and i think you`ll find that it wont lase . shouldnt anyhow
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@HaggisHero alright, i did some tests. I was wrong about LGBs - they will miss when dropping through a cloud layer. The problem is that the laser beam can “burn” through the clouds, the laser spot can also be tracked by the TGP through the layer, and the TGP itself can track an area or point behind the cloud.
That is, the weather affects weapon’s seeker, but not the TGP and its laser.
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@Foxtrot701 - so, as I mentioned there are a LOT of things going wrong in these pictures…for starters:
- if the LST is actually tracking code 1688, then the LMAV should also be tracking code 1688 - it is in SLAVE, so it is looking at the same spot the LST is looking at and should also be detecting the spot, and indicating locked to it.
- there is no GPI in the LMAV display at all - which would indicate to me that the weapon is failed, though it is indicating RDY.
- there is no UNCAGED indication in the LMAV display - it should be there if the gimbal is pointing off axis…and if the weapon is UNCAGED and SLAVEed but not locked, the GPI should be an “X”, if locked it should be a solid block. But the GPI is not even on the display.
- pretty sure the RDY indication is in the wrong position in the LMAV display, but I won’t swear to it.
- pretty sure that the OPER and PRE buttons shouldn’t be on the LMAV display, but won’t swear to that either.
- no idea why there is a bomb fall line in the HUD. Not right for any MAV.
- no idea why there is not an LMAV seeker triangle displayed in the HUD - should be there, coincident with the LST track in the HUD.
- if the laser energy is coming from the ground, it shouldn’t be visible at all through the cloud - to the LST or the LMAV.
- if the laser energy is being scattered by the cloud, both the LST and LMAV “tracks” should be wandering around on the scatter.
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@Stevie Screenshot before the third:
I am not 100% familiar with LMAV, but LMAV was able to track the laser spot. The problem not with LMAV’s as they are affected by weather, but rather with the fact that clouds do not affect TGP at all. -
@Foxtrot701 - they should affect both…
Similar problems with this picture:
- GPI is shown and locked on the LMAV display, but there is no LMAV designation symbol in the HUD; or the designation symbol in the HUD is drawn incorrectly for LMAV…should be an inverted triangle with a center dot.
- LMAV is indicating SLAVE when it should be indicating LOCKed, given that the TGP does not appear to be tracking - just pointing.
- TGP is not lasing…so where is the laser energy coming from?
- pretty sure RDY indication is in the wrong location on the LMAV display.
- there should not be a bomb fall line in the HUD.
- still no idea what OPR and PRE are for…they don’t apply to any RL MAV I’ve ever been involved in shooting. EDIT: After poking around another post, I get the feeling that these may be mis-diplayed JASSM buttons? Same may apply to the fall line in the HUD.
I know that the BMS LMAV model is young, but it is moving in the right direction…slowly.
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@Stevie they definitely should have an effect, perhaps this is not modeled for the TGP and the laser beam.
It was lasing, the “L” on the TGP&HUD did not appear on the screenshot because it was blinking. As i said, i am not too familiar with LMAV and its indications. Also, is it normal for the LMAV WPN display to show AG65K instead of L? My bet the LMAV is implemented into the F-16 through the regular maverick interface, which goes some way to explaining the wrong stuff you found.
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@Stevie the bomb isnt guided by the laser beam itself, but the reflections from the object being pointed at with the laser.
Correct me if Im wrong, but this is how I remeber it explained by some guys that were doing JTAC training.
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@Guard_85 - yes - it guides on the reflected energy, but if there is something in the way - like a cloud, or smoke - that will be the energy that is reflected first, and what the seeker will try to lock to.
This holds for both the LMAV and the LST…and/or any laser seeker - such as an LGB. Which is why an LGB may miss on a “spot” surrounded by smoke or haze…the laser energy gets scattered and becomes incoherent.
BTW - if you confuse the weapon enough by lofting it such that it can see the muzzle of the supporting laser, the weapon may/can actually lock that instead of the target - I know of one RL incident where that actually happened to an F/A-18 supporting a night launch of a Hellfire missile from a Cobra…the weapon fortunately didn’t fuse, but took out a big chunk of the Hornet’s left stab when it hit it. The pilot felt the thump, but no notable effect on how the jet was flying. He finished the mission and it wasn’t until RTB that ground personnel could see half the stab missing as the jet taxied past the ground lights.
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@Foxtrot701 - I need to go back to my books and check, but I don’t think the type of MAV is actually in the MAV display if only because it’s so obvious what you are looking at - I think it’s only on the wing form/selection buttons…so I guess those could be resented on the MAV display? I also have to remember that some of items on these displays blink! Yes - all MAVs are integrated through the same interface.
I have to agree with you - there are problems with both the LMAV and the general laser modeling, it seems. The laser issues should be easily resolved - physics is physics - and honestly, I’d like to see the laser modeling and atmospheric effects addressed/fixed first really, because that would increase/enhance the “realisimo” of all laser guided weapons and targeting in BMS in general.
There are also some things wrong/missing from the TGP model - I’ve only recently begun playing with SNIPER pods, so I’m not a real “expert” there…but I’ve been playing with Laser and IR MAVs for about 35 years and know them (and how lasers behave) very well.