IFF - Why so important?
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You should add the letters “IMO” then…
True, but you seem not to know or not to mention the full potential of what it is and what it can do. There are ROE’s in every campaign or incident, IFF is a vital system (among many other systems/aspects like radar, flight profile plus more) for everyone, from the simple rookie pilot up to the HQ-ATO manager to categorize and decide if the opponent (= the one not responding at all to the interrogation or transiting wrong codes), is a civilian, a fool forgot to change his codes, a bird with multifunctioning IFF, or indeed a bandit to be fired upon.
So, if it can within a TMS-Left and couple of seconds improve my SA in every aspect, from knowing where i should put my cursors to quickly re-aquire a lost radar contact up to find my team either withing IFR or with damaged radar or datalink, IMHO is more than necessary to have onboard.
Answer #9 also applies.
I appreciate the point, but in all the recent conflicts, a positive vid has always been required above all, so not much is going to change there. It will either quickly build up your SA or confuse you even more. Besides, not a lot of information is available with regards to IFF usage during times of conflict (;
Red Dog, I wouldn’t mind having it implemented, I think the reason that some people don’t like the idea of having it is because they are “afraid” of big changes as it is human nature to do so, maybe thinking it is going to make the sim feel more “arcade” or something along those lines.
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If it flies in front of you, SHOOT!
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IFF is very useful in real life, I suppose, and I’d like to see it implemented someday, but before that happens, I think the AI in general needs to be changed drastically.
When I started flying BMS, I thought taking on SU-30, MiG-29S, … would result in getting the jet shot from under my *** in at least 7/10 encounters, but I find it’s actually quite easy to pick them off, without much training or coordination. Adding extra tools of the trade on blue side alone would shift the advantage further towards the player, possibly taking away the challenge even more.
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but in all the recent conflicts, a positive vid has always been required above all
Not true. Not in Gulf (only after the incident in which 2 Eagles downed 2 army Blackhawks, and by then US had the full air dominance while enemy not even a couple of cargo jets on the ground…), not in Bosnia (documentation is extensive about all incidents and downed afts), not by Israel conflicts, not in Lybia.
It is not weird that NATO requires some (very high) minimum standards and requirements for any jet that will participate in a conflict, or even been accepted in NATO Deployment Force. Not either that some countries payed some millions $ to upgrade their IFF source codes to include latest modes S L2 etc.
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I thought (as told) that block 30 and F-4 and A7 don’t have IFF, unless the Greek way is installed on them. M2K?
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I think that IFF is just one of the “aids,” but it isn’t a be-all and end-all of ID-ing targets as anyone can tell you that IFF codes can be copied… or what if the approaching “bogey” is simply a friendly with a non-functional IFF? Besides, if you were the bad guy, will you be broadcasting “I’m a bad guy! Shoot me!!” or would you rather turn IFF off and keep them guessing?
So it’s one of the features that would be “cool to have,” but I don’t think it would really make anything “easier.”
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the codes changed out daily in war time? I had a friend back in 2000, during a Red Flag would change the A-10 codes out everyday.
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Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the codes changed out daily in war time? I had a friend back in 2000, during a Red Flag would change the A-10 codes out everyday.
That’s just one mode of IFF. (don’t ask) :mrgreen:
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Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the codes changed out daily in war time? I had a friend back in 2000, during a Red Flag would change the A-10 codes out everyday.
Actually more than that it depends on the mission but in reality for a sim it is just a 4 digit number in mode 4, IRL the 4 digit number is like a bunch of codes but for sims they do not need to go that far just 4 numbers is enough. We are not yet at the level where its necessary to hack the red sides code enough that it would be necessary for more complex codes etc. But oneday no doubt it could happen in mp.
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Well just 4 digit codes, i believe they r a piece of cake to brake, even with overlapping, changing frequency and codes… U need just a good electronics engineer and fast (super fast) equipment, afterall until F-18 their cpu’s ain’t fast at all.
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I wish you had the chance to see “something”, then you would understand the “difference” of this invention.
I was talking about in-sim use of of IFF, but I guess you are talking about real-life? Care to expound more?
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You’re talking about spoofing Mode 3 IFF. Well, that’s easy (if you know which one to use in each moment). Hacking Mode 4 or 5 It isn’t so easy…
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Not true. Not in Gulf (only after the incident in which 2 Eagles downed 2 army Blackhawks, and by then US had the full air dominance while enemy not even a couple of cargo jets on the ground…), not in Bosnia (documentation is extensive about all incidents and downed afts), not by Israel conflicts, not in Lybia.
Not so sure - The Blackhawks were downed on the 14th April 1994
Lt David Sveden states during the 1991 gulf war that the ROE says that a lack of IFF “squawk” and an AWACs “bandit” confirmation was required before firing BVR.
Interestingly in one engagement - Capt Cesar Rodriguez states that a contact ID’d by AWACs as being a MiG was showing as a friendly IFF contact on both of their jets EID matrix - so they had to Vis ID the contact and merge with a MiG-29.
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I was talking about in-sim use of of IFF, but I guess you are talking about real-life? Care to expound more?
Not actually atm, but lets stay that is a nice gadget and would be very interesting to have in the sim from every aspect, SA, mp challenges etc.
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I thought (as told) that block 30 and F-4 and A7 don’t have IFF, unless the Greek way is installed on them. M2K?
Well this is not a B30 sim, nor Phantom or Corsair. For the record AUP and the French have them.
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Hi all,
In BMS it could have and offer a few good uses that would be kool but not know thou……ie.
Comms with JTACS and FAC/CAS and ground radar intel with sortie package in the air… ID squawking Foe or Friendly for better (S.A.),
AWACS, ATC …etc etc etc…more like DCS World quite sure it all has relevance and would make the combat scene more interesting.Watch the videos in a complex war scene it would all be gathered as valuable info especially with NATO/Coalition type missions where there is simultaneous A-A and A-G attacks with various A/C types etc etc… like a Red Flag scenario.
Listen carefully to videos as you are told that all tactics and info is gathered for mission success, yes that would mean basic info like IFF, strike coordinates who has what load-out, who is who and how close to strike range (Proximity) etc, etc… its all S.A. its actually very interesting, scares the hell out of me…LoL
Watch videos…
Part 1-2
Working with Reaper Drones MQ-9 Predators
Let your imagination go wild its how good scripts and theaters are created for BMS something to consider for future development in SP and MP.
I think …… “Nevada Theater”
Air Force coordination using IFF “Friendly and Foe”, Civil Aviation ATC and non ATC aerodromes Friendly its all mainly used for vector coordinate traffic management identification……etc etc
Imagine a packaged escort missions protecting a C-17 from being jumped across a combat zone by SU-27’s you flank two F-15’s to intercept as you turn the C-17 to a safe zone and re-route the package as ground intel is receiving your transponder code thru radar…giving you new vector coordinates…bla…bla…bla
One way to look at this is secured military fly zones, no civilian A/C allowed, and emergency procedure to nearest Air Base good for future theaters with multiple military and civilian Int’l Air Ports, hot zones with multiple packages in the combat zone controlling inbound and out bound packages as they go back for weapons reloads, strategic flanking techniques and IDing targets, FLOT management …bla, bla, bla
Also imagine “3D Cities for Falcon Project” were now you have suburban wars aerial ground centered combat and managing that……well again let your minds go wild as to how far you can go with theaters and packaged sorties etc etc etc
Reading Resources…
http://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/END-Archive/afi11-2f-16v3.pdf……Page 32 Instrument Procedures, Section 4.2. Takeoff and Join-up
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0286b.shtml
http://jcs.dtic.mil/j6/cceb/acps/acp160/ACP160D.pdf
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/vfr/vfrg-whole.pdf
http://jcs.dtic.mil/j6/cceb/acps/acp160/ACP160D.pdf
http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/166-1.pdf
There is another doc 500 pages by CASA on Transponder Regulations etc etc very well detail on IFF principles and regulations
Incorporating….
Link 16
http://www.baesystems.com/product/BAES_055454/small-adaptable-form-factor-saff-link-16
AESA Radar and Sensor Suite Systems
More Here …. https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?10971-F16IN-AESA-RADAR
IFF-transponder squawking is vital, yes BMS should implement it but well so many other things on list first …… LoL
Also not forgetting we need heaps of completed theaters first with accurate civil and military air bases…LoL
I guess Devs have only two hands…I will pray for more…maybe an Alien with 8 hands to join the team… LoL…
Or maybe we start cloning them …
…… LoLI want that F-18…at what air base is it at…for crying out loud…:p
Well as sim develops I am expecting a kick ass combat sim, more can be done with BMS F4 because its open to public its not a closed commercial sim, F4 can continue to develop at no end as the years go on…just need more talented people once BMS has conquered the Terrain issue and bringing it to a more modern F4, theater Dev’s will need to get more creative…patience and stay positive it will happen the dream is coming…I choose to believe even thou well yeah you know…
Regards,
SkyKnight
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lol Skyknight, you can see in FSX we use IFF mode 3 for ATC and you change that according to the area you fly and are given the Squak code by ATC. Thats how that works, Mode 4 is all you would use to separate teams and the IFF just gives you an indication that there are friendlys in your area and where they are but the safety feature is to prevent friendly fire incidents which is something some aircraft have which stops the launching of missiles on friendly aircraft by placing an X indication on the HUD. In FC3 the IFF is automatic and thats how it operates for most aircraft, for something like BMS you could go further into it, there is plenty of info in some of the MLU tapes/manuals etc.
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Wow, SkyKnight, good work!
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@Smokin:
Reading posts written as if they were cell phone texts is really difficult.
wtf r u on rbout m8? afaik, he does it adl. d/w d00d. Don’t know your a/s/l/r but rotflmfao @ ur post.
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Could you please write in plain english?. This is not a cell SMS
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@Ara’:
wtf r u on rbout m8? afaik, he does it adl. d/w d00d. Don’t know your a/s/l/r but rotflmfao @ ur post.
my translate
what the **** are you on roundabout might? As far as I know, he doest it idol download douce. Don´t know your aisle but my ass is cracked of your post