F-14D Cockpit
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Just said interesting…
I agree the article seems a bit biased but you just need to take the parts you want
I personally liked to learn a bit more about the Iranians Tomcats!
Pepe
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every claim about any plane, not having lost a dogfight against any contemporary opposition it ever flew against, if true, would go solely as a credit to its pilots. Just one look at the flight envelopes of every plane designed from the start of the 70’s to the start of the 90’s is enough to tell you how close these birds are in the overall performance
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or in this case, as a credit to the hyperbole of the speaker.
if true on the other hand, It would definitely be the result of the pilots’ skill.
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yeah, exactly!
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interesting or amusing?
it reckons that the F-14 never lost a dogfight to the F-16 or F-15…
Where do you derive that claim from? I can’t recall reading anything of that sort in the article. Note that for Iran, the F-15 might not have been as good a choice for several reasons. The principal points the author identifies as being major criteria for selecting the '14 over the '15 was the weapons system. I’d also consider the F-14 as a superior fighter for large area air superiority, more so than the F-15. Therefore, where Israel might benefit from the F-15 over the relatively small area it has to defend, the Tomcat can cover a much greater area, and Iran is certainly a much larger country.
I noted before (or tried, probably unsuccessfully) that one of the key resources the autor cited was this book by Osprey Publishing:
http://books.google.com/books/about/Iranian_F_14_Tomcat_Units_in_Combat.html?id=MCzk0cARvjAC
*EDIT:
Ah, I see the phrase in question:
“But the F-14 remains an impressive machine. During dogfight exercises at low level, the F-14 always beat the F-15, the F-16, and also out-flew the MiG-29 (reportedly the reason Iran ordered so few MiG-29s).”
…Which is hard to notice, because it’s at the close of the article. This is a general statement, clearly. I recall talking to a former F-14 pilot at an airshow who was currently flying the F/A-18F. His remarks indicated that the F-14 would outrun and then catch the F-111 at low level, something Aardvark pilots would vehemently deny. Of course there was also the battle of which was better, the F-14 or the Eagle. Being an F-14 pilot himself, it was pretty clear he thought the 'Cat was the better aeroplane in many regards.
So, it is true that this statement doesn’t have as much substance as others in the article, but it may be running off generalizations of combat exercises in the US (or those with US allies). Don’t forget how many battles go back and forth between what’s better: the F-16 or one of the MiG-29 family, or even the F/A-18 and the MiG-29 family. It’s an argument that goes back and forth all the time, and it’s highly dependendent on the flight regime each particular aeroplane is operating in. Furthermore…
…At high speed, low-level, the F-14 will always beat the F-15 or 16 with respect to performance. This is due to the virtures of the variable-geometry wing, both reducing drag and increasing wing loading (which is good in this case, due to the thick atmosphere at low level). The '15’s fixed wing will put the aeroplane under a great deal of stress (one of the key arguments against replacing the F-111 with the F-15E), while the F-16 suffers from a fixed intake. Now, what happens after departure from high-speed flight at low level may be a different story, but there is a bit of truth to that claim.
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it reckons that the F-14 never lost a dogfight to the F-16 or F-15…
I have to laugh on this comment. F-5 and A-4 were hard opponent in many cases.
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yeah, but even so, if you are up there in a (D)ACT sortie, and you’re flying against F-14s, you’re not gonna be best served by diving for the deck, are you.
having a discussion on BFM of the tomcat is a bit silly, given its purpose, but the point still stands - experience counts for a lot. performance helps. I recall a story told in the Art of the Kill book, where the author recounts a BFM flight where he was the IP. Now, in the USAF, any BFM sortie is required to be set up so that there is a clear role for each pilot - the student will specifically be an attacker, for example, or specifically a defender, for each event.
In this case, the student was the attacker. Seeing as neither pilot would start with a 3/9 line advantage, the solution they used was that the IP would use only MIL power, he would not use reheat. The student objected; He felt that that would make it “Too easy”.I’ll bet you can imagine how that made a qualified IP feel, that this recruit barely out of IQT thought that he would be “Too easy” to kill. He restrained himself, however he made his point in the following engagement. they started with a head on scenario; the IP used his smaller turning circle to great effect.
even at low level, the difference would still not let the F-14 fly circles around other aircraft, especially not an F-16.
Ill have to find the text from the book, as it was an interesting engagement…
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I bet that there is no aircraft in the world which has not been “downed” at least once in a simulated air combat. I can list many reasons why I can say this. The most simple is the lack of SA in air combat. Any fighter can be downed easily as long as the “downed” pilot is not aware where is the “enemy”. In many vs. many cases this is not so hard. During AIMVAL/ACEVAL hundreds of dogfights were conducted and in many vs. many cases F-14 and F-15 can reach about overall 2:1 kill ratio in 2 vs 4 and 4 vs 4 or 6 vs 6 cases. This means dozens of “killed” F-15 and F-14…
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I don’t think anyone would contest that, Molni.
Again, I think it’s an over-generalized assesment based on criteria or a standpoint which has not been well-defined, or even defined at all. The best way to figure out or pick apart what the author of the blog was saying in that instance would probably be to shoot him an e-mail.
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Thaeris is most sensible. Also, and I apologize if I’m just stupid and am missing the obvious, but is there a DL link to Mykinge’s fantastic-looking Tomcat pit anywhere? Feel like I’ve gone through this whole thread and found nary a link to it…
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It has not been finished and even it will be somebody have to make an installer to see in core DB as long as BMS4 Team won’t integrate into them.
It will be integrated into my MOD, currently a late January state has been put into the test version of MOD.
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I must have that NOW!!!111!!
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I must have that NOW!!!111!!
Yeah, that’s kind of my thought too. Shame that there’s no option to take it for a spin right now, but I guess I understand.
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It has not been finished and even it will be somebody have to make an installer to see in core DB as long as BMS4 Team won’t integrate into them.
It will be integrated into my MOD, currently a late January state has been put into the test version of MOD.
Every MOD and model that follows the rules will be intergrated in the BMS DB if the maker wishes.
gr Falcas
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I must have that NOW!!!111!!
The pit is far from finished state. If you check back the thread you can see how serios issues are if you fly the pit at night.
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I am very excited for the F-14 pit and the F-18 pit however, I get the feeling there are too many issues with the ingame carriers to fully maximize the experience with these awesome pits.
Two “Semi Functioning” Catapults. What about the other Two?
Four Aircraft spawn Locations?
In the Above picture I get the feeling its just the opposite in BMS. The Aircraft are too big for the carrier
The look and feel of the Carrier is just BLAH.I understand this is an “F-16 Sim” But the 14, and especially the Bug coming could potentially give it a run for its money too some. So with that said, at this point in time is it to soon to ask for an overhaul of the overall carrier if These fantastic community members are going to keep dishing out Carrier objectives , and theaters? I would volunteer to do it myself but I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO BEGIN. Or the tools I require to try. I will break my game in an effort to do my part to the community for all the mods and what not I have downloaded over the past year.
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I bet that there is no aircraft in the world which has not been “downed” at least once in a simulated air combat. I can list many reasons why I can say this. The most simple is the lack of SA in air combat. Any fighter can be downed easily as long as the “downed” pilot is not aware where is the “enemy”. In many vs. many cases this is not so hard. During AIMVAL/ACEVAL hundreds of dogfights were conducted and in many vs. many cases F-14 and F-15 can reach about overall 2:1 kill ration in 2 vs 4 and 4 vs 4 or 6 vs 6 cases. This means dozens of “killed” F-15 and F-14…
True, and between the countless possible scenarios, weapon/fuel loads, starting parameters and mission objectives there is just no “clear cut” advantage in every possible encounter. Therefore the choice and implementation of doctrine has much more of an impact, as well as following some basic guidelines (don’t turn with a Viper if it packs nothing but 2 winders on its wings or don’t break low and slow against a Bug)…
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True, and between the countless possible scenarios, weapon/fuel loads, starting parameters and mission objectives there is just no “clear cut” advantage in every possible encounter. Therefore the choice and implementation of doctrine has much more of an impact, as well as following some basic guidelines (don’t turn with a Viper if it packs nothing but 2 winders on its wings or don’t break low and slow against a Bug)…
lol, just dont turn with a viper!
hang on, isnt USAF doctrine to just not turn with anything these days? I thought they preferred to blow through if they get to WVR…
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lol, just dont turn with a viper!
hang on, isnt USAF doctrine to just not turn with anything these days? I thought they preferred to blow through if they get to WVR…
If the Viper is packing packing 6 AAM’s (including AMRAAMs) and has half or more internal fuel left……and it’s not an A model…there are altitudes and speeds at which you can out turn it with an F-15 or F-14. Sadly though, as you mentioned, these days USAF frowns greatly at knife fights, even when their ACs have a clear advantage in that department.
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ah, fair enough, I guess it makes sense if the viper is a little heavy.
still comes down to pilot skill, situational awareness, and how many 6’s you can roll in a row…
given the somewhat distributed nature of skill, I guess it makes sense to avoid entry into a phase of flight that tends towards target fixation and a lack of SA.