F-14D Cockpit
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Shift+C does not de-activate AoA limiter, it just change it.
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Shift+C does not de-activate AoA limiter, it just change it.
Yeah and in my case it changes it to over 60 degrees. I think i located the problem. I removed the AFM file from the folder and now the Cat acts in a completely different manner. The thing is without the AFM, the catapults don’t work….
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Playing with the limiters can have an effect on ai performance to fly the ac, they cant recover from a high aoa/stall, its easy to see it, if its set too high. Do a 2-ship take off, as soon as you lift do a hard 180 turn and watch the ai max out the aoa and fall to the ground.
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Playing with the limiters can have an effect on ai performance to fly the ac, they cant recover from a high aoa/stall, its easy to see it, if its set too high. Do a 2-ship take off, as soon as you lift do a hard 180 turn and watch the ai max out the aoa and fall to the ground.
This won’t make things any easier
But i’ll experiment a bit the next week if i can get some spare time from work and will report on the results. -
Also keep in mind there where ways to override the DFC on the F-14D during ACM but the DFC allowed the F-14A to behave better in ACM? This is from pilots comments, so it may be how they preferred to fly. So don’t nerf my turkey too much.
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Also keep in mind there where ways to override the DFC on the F-14D during ACM but the DFC allowed the F-14A to behave better in ACM? This is from pilots comments, so it may be how they preferred to fly. So don’t nerf my turkey too much.
All the changes need to be applied to the AFM and the AI uses the basic FM if i’m correct? However changing the values without some sort of legend is a ghost chase. If the dat file is correct, the author of the AFM is Mav-jp, so maybe we should ask him to clarify it for us?
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Shift + C is the default mapping for the CAT limiter switch.
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When Cold War Russia taught the best tactics against the F-14 were to run, or try to overload it by coming in at multiple angles with multiple aircraft, all their customers did the same. The Iran-Iraq war was the Superpowers’ watching game, they saw what worked and what didn’t without too much intervention. Russia realized it needed a good self defense jammer and better RWR on their tactical jets. By the time Desert Storm went live, the well practiced tctic of running from an AWG-9 paint was a reality. F-14s chased and forced enemy fighters into free-flying F-15 MiGCAPs as instructed. They didn’t (officially) lob any AIM-54s at long range targets because their discrimination capability at that time was not nearly as good as the F-15 over land. An Iranian pilot knows anyone coming inbound is bad, so just shoot. They were well trained and they did just that. The Navy F-14 drivers knew that over 95% of the aircraft in the air at any given time were allies. The US Air Force had JTIDS and well practiced COMMs with the AWACs. The US just went with a sure thing for MiG kills. What most people do not realize is that when the F-14D shot at the MiG-25 in Iraq during Southern Watch, the MiG-25 flew a high speed curve to use the missiles energy. The Iraqis knew what they were doing and evaded several AIM-7/AIM-120 shots by F-15s the same day. The enemy was more cautious and prepared when fighting the US Navy tomcats that is all. I’m sure there are more camera stills of gunsight pippers on enemy pilots planes during non-shooting confrontations. We just didn’t get the chance to make the kills.
before writing this post I talk to this ACE and he said that his word are not true .
he said recently I have been invited to US to have conferrers For USN Former F-14 pilot and talk for them. he has 560 tactical Mission. from 2 hour flight till 9 hour. most of them were 9 hour CAP mission. he promises me to in few days give me some document with strong source to show the truth to you all . I am not in good mood to talk. but you words are 90% not true . dear bro he said about 8 years USA watch our tactics use and improve it to maintain dominance . the F-14D build on our war experience and our pilot profile . I said that he is so respectful to USN F-14 pilots. especially their aces and old ones . he said USN F-14 had not any combat and tactical mission and actual fight in his history just 3 time. I am not in mood to write really. I am not in mood. but he said that he has more document (strong document) than any one want to refuse to accept that. I will publish it here later.An Iranian pilot knows anyone coming inbound is bad, so just shoot
what is your reference to say that?!!!
when you know nothing about some thing better to not judge .
every engage in sky during the war was after clearance given by ground radar crew and Bat aircrafts & … then shoot . this is accepted by the pilots.
you talking about one of most professional pilots that you people (both air-force & & navy pilot of us) accept that. he said that the guy who tell you this sentence by this sentence show that know nothing and just act as someone who know. it’s not my word . it’s not his exact words. but seem to mean the way like this. I am not here to say something in my dreams . no, my source is Air force Aces who know the truth . I don’t know you . I don’t know u are in USN or USAF or not. but he is in IRI-AF & he was in II-AF before 1979 revolution. he know many pilots in USN( I don’t know about USAF in fact I didn’t ask him so far) . do you know still in US F-14 legend believed and many former F-14 pilot held some kind of seminars sometime and talk about their Experiences & … . and he is one of invitations !!! to talk about F-14 for them . you know why? becuase he used F-14 in real actual fight and dogfight & … . while USN no. i say strong no. I am not offending or challenging . you should accept the truth. truth is there is no official document to show USN use their F-14 and Aim-54 as real combat & actual fighting flight in war may be more than 5 time an may even less. dear bro wait for my docs about Iran-Iraq war. I will publish them soon. if admin didn’t ban me. :lol:But admin don’t scare , I don’t want to make trouble for you. just some doc of Iran-Iraq war based on F-14 hunts. & about some thing like this .
My G-mail if Admin scared and baned me or dellet my acount: [email protected]by the way I understand indirectly and like an inference form his word when we test F-15 & f-14 to choose F-14 was much beyond the imagination than F-15 .And he exactly said more maneuverable . I guess from his words, the public docs and manuals of F-14 is not accurate . did any one know about f-14 Flap maneuvers ?!! or …
I love all of you, believe me. I am not here to be rude or offend any one but I love TomCat tooooooo much. Tomcat is much more poor in history than anyone could imagine. many people love him but how many know him exactly as that they know F-15 or F-16 ? 99.9999999999999999999999999% of people even know the material use in F-16 tire wheels but there are veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy few people know F-14 have glove . and what is the usage. I don’t mean this forum people .
thnx you all for reading and replying to my post especially dear Turkeydriver . excuse me if my post are offending & rude .
Heydar -
Hey CrazyJP Isn’t this plane just scrap metal now? Hahaha couldnt cut it lol…… awaiting your response lol
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Hey CrazyJP Isn’t this plane just scrap metal now? Hahaha couldnt cut it lol…… awaiting your response lol
response to people like you is being silent. the best way. we are not here to argue or fight . we are here to prove our words or if we don’t have documents we can say it was my former point of view & there is no shame for any one.
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response to people like you is being silent. the best way. we are not here to argue or fight . we are here to prove our words or if we don’t have documents we can say it was my former point of view & there is no shame for any one.
heydar, his response was a joke towards me, a fellow squadmate. He knows i like the f-14, while he prefers the f-15. just some good natured jibbing.
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response to people like you is being silent. the best way. we are not here to argue or fight . we are here to prove our words or if we don’t have documents we can say it was my former point of view & there is no shame for any one.
You shouldn’t butt in when the question isn’t directed at you
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You shouldn’t butt in when the question isn’t directed at you
excuse me I thought that you talking seriously to me . thanx to both of you for feed back.
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before writing this post I talk to this ACE and he said that his word are not true .
he said recently I have been invited to US to have conferrers For USN Former F-14 pilot and talk for them. he has 560 tactical Mission. from 2 hour flight till 9 hour. most of them were 9 hour CAP mission. he promises me to in few days give me some document with strong source to show the truth to you all . I am not in good mood to talk. but you words are 90% not true . dear bro he said about 8 years USA watch our tactics use and improve it to maintain dominance . the F-14D build on our war experience and our pilot profile . I said that he is so respectful to USN F-14 pilots. especially their aces and old ones . he said USN F-14 had not any combat and tactical mission and actual fight in his history just 3 time. I am not in mood to write really. I am not in mood. but he said that he has more document (strong document) than any one want to refuse to accept that. I will publish it here later.But admin don’t scare , I don’t want to make trouble for you. just some doc of Iran-Iraq war based on F-14 hunts. & about some thing like this .
what is your reference to say that?!!!
when you know nothing about some thing better to not judge .
every engage in sky during the war was after clearance given by ground radar crew and Bat aircrafts & … then shoot . this is accepted by the pilots.
you talking about one of most professional pilot that you people (both air-force & & navy pilot of us) accept that. he said that the guy who tell you this sentence by this sentence show that know nothing and just act as someone who know. it’s not my word . it’s not his exact words. but seem to mean the way like this. I am not here to say something in my dreams . no, my source is Air force Aces who know the truth . I don’t know you . I don’t know u are in USN or USAF or not. but he is in IRI-AF & he was in II-AF before 1979 revolution. he know many pilots in USN( I don’t know about USAF in fact I didn’t ask him so far) . do you know still in US F-14 legend believed and many former F-14 pilot held some kind of seminars sometime and talk about their Experiences & … . and he is one of invitations !!! to talk about F-14 for them . you know why? becuase he used F-14 in real actual fight and dogfight & … . while USN no. i say strong no. I am not offending or challenging . you should accept the truth. truth is there is no official document to show USN use their F-14 and Aim-54 as real combat & actual fighting flight in war may be more than 5 time an may even less. dear bro wait for my docs about Iran-Iraq war. I will publish them soon. if admin didn’t ban me. :lol:My G-mail if Admin scared and baned me or dellet my acount: [email protected]
by the way I understand indirectly and like an inference form his word when we test F-15 & f-14 to choose F-14 was much beyond the imagination than F-15 .And he exactly said more maneuverable . I guess from his words, the public docs and manuals of F-14 is not accurate . did any one know about f-14 Flap maneuvers ?!! or …
I love all of you, believe me. I am not here to be rude or offend any one but I love TomCat tooooooo much. Tomcat is much more poor in history than anyone could imagine. many people love him but how many know him exactly as that they know F-15 or F-16 ? 99.9999999999999999999999999% of people even know the material use in F-16 tire wheels but there are veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy few people know F-14 have glove . and what is the usage. I don’t mean this forum people .
thnx you all for reading and replying to my post especially dear Turkeydriver . excuse me if my post are offending & rude .
HeydarHeydar,
no one is going to ban you man. First off, thanks for your valuable information. This is a forum for military aviation enthusiasts so anyone who’s got something useful to say about it is welcome, especially someone who’s in contact with a former fighter pilot with extensive real life experience in an F-14. You are one of maybe 5 people (that is an optimistic guess, I haven’t seen many of the guys who are former turkey drivers here, like the guys over at the Tomcat Sunset forums) who have this kind of connection and are willing to share their info.
Also, I guess I speak for most of the people when I say that we appreciate that you’re not fluent enough in English to touch upon the nuances of the language in order to make it 100% ‘forum compatible’
IMHO I am happy to have you here and appreciate your sharing whatever input you can provide. I’ve personally spent a lot of time on the Iran/Iraq war and the entire history of the region in general from the late 1800s until today and believe me when I tell ya I had to laugh at when I read you wrote about 1) the Iraqi radio response when detecting a 14 in the airspace (actually there are numerous occasions on which it’s been confirmed that when the AWG-9 was turned on and the bogies identified it they turned around and ran, what you said about that just confirms this) and the fact that the actual combat experience of Iranian 14 drivers is second to none when it comes to actual one on one fighter duty as opposed to ‘moving mud’ which is what most US naval sorties were about (in actual combat that is).
Please continue to share your valuable input. Usually I’d suggest to move it into another thread but since there are really only two really active threads on anything Tomcat related (that being this thread about mykinge’s thoroughly awesome F-14D pit and my F-14 skin thread) might as well stay here and see where the journey leads us
Thanks again and shab be kheyr!
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excuse me I thought that you talking seriously to me . thanx to both of you for feed back.
no problem…. there are alot of passionate tomcat fans heres never seen any like it other than the 16
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thanx stingray_SIX_TWO. he promises me to give me valuable resource that no one couldn’t hesitate on it. it’s tooooooooo late here . here time is in AM . everybody sleep.
as I said I am not here to challenge or offend any body. i am here to prove F-14 Dog fight capability while proving Iran F-14 giant effect in war unlike the western and eastern propaganda said it do nothing . Tomcat was Much more valuable than that being retired in USN. as fleet defender. I always believe that.
he may have more than 560 Tactical mission , but I know 560 at sure.
talking about this matter later. it late time and I am soooooooooo tired .shabet khosh. khabaye khosh bebini jigar .( off-course it’s not late at night there )
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by the way I understand indirectly and like an inference form his word when we test F-15 & f-14 to choose F-14 was much beyond the imagination than F-15 .And he exactly said more maneuverable . I guess from his words, the public docs and manuals of F-14 is not accurate . did any one know about f-14 Flap maneuvers ?!! or …
The reason behind why many people would contest the maneuverability of any plane is mostly due to semantics and differences in doctrine. Just look at the difference in approaches between ex-USSR and USA designs. Or the US NAVY and US Air Force designs. Saying that one plane is more maneuverable then another has be taken into context about how that plane is going to be used in actual combat. Is it going to turn and burn? Zoom and Boom? Engage at BVR? Intercept? Patrol? Point defense?
Things get even nastier when people start throwing in dog-fighting capability. Pretty much everywhere in the forum, media and everyday life, the colloquial use of the word has become synonymous with all air to air combat. But the term clearly relates and originates in close in, visual range, knife fights. Regardless of weather dofighting is to be endorsed or avoided, people are using the word to describe any airplane that is good in air to air battles even when it clearly wasn’t designed to fight most effectively like that.
From that aspect, i’d say the F-14 was pretty good dogfighter for a plane of that size and weight. In a turn and burn and furball environments it had the advantage of good sustained turn rates at lower speeds and good nose authority. This gave it shorter turn radius at it’s best STR then most planes of its time. When in the mach 0.8+ region it’s effective thrust to weight ratio was greater then 1 when in combat configuration (60% fuel, 4X4 AIMs), so it could zoom and boom when needed. It’s acceleration was very good in the transonic and supersonic region, which combined with it’s great energy sustaining at supersonic speeds made it a great interceptor.
However the need to carry large missiles like the Phoenix and the large AWG-9 radar did have its toll on the overall performance of the plane, especially in the high subsonic region. The need to stay long periods on CAP also meant that the cruise speed suffered as well. The look-down capability over land was not that great too. The lack of thrust and the reliability of the TF-30 engines meant the AC would not reach its full potential.
Out of all these “facts”, one has to take into account what are the ones that affect the mission the most, and judge the maneuverability accordingly.
cheers and have a good night mate! -
From that aspect, i’d say the F-14 was pretty good dogfighter for a plane of that size and weight.
There is no doubt about that, and even more, there are (very) few other US planes which maneuverability at low speed can be compared to the one of the F-14A.
And as you said…did have its toll on the overall performance of the plane, especially in the high subsonic region
, where all other US fighters have been optimized for.
Due to US 70’s (and mainly USAF) Air-to-Air Doctrine, the low speed capabilities of the F-14A had not been recognized as it should in US.
In all other region of the world, the A/A Doctrine are far away from the US one in the 70’s, so F-14A capabilities are much more appreciated. -
There is no doubt about that, and even more, there are (very) few other US planes which maneuverability at low speed can be compared to the one of the F-14A.
And as you said , where all other US fighters have been optimized for.
Due to US 70’s (and mainly USAF) Air-to-Air Doctrine, the low speed capabilities of the F-14A had not been recognized as it should in US.
In all other region of the world, the A/A Doctrine are far away from the US one in the 70’s, so F-14A capabilities are much more appreciated.Agreed on both accounts.
BTW, i continued to have trouble with the consistency of my FM tests, so i decided to delete all the BMS files in my install folder and ran a fresh install. All the weird behavior i described in my previous posts when in CATIII disappeared. It must have a been a relic dat file from an early or incomplete update patch. I may still have it somewhere in my installs partition if someone wants to examine it more closely. One thing i blundered though, is i though i had backuped my config file. Now half the commands are unbound
Does anyone have a spare config with the BMS standard layout i can use to override mu own? -
Agreed on both accounts.
BTW, i continued to have trouble with the consistency of my FM tests, so i decided to delete all the BMS files in my install folder and ran a fresh install. All the weird behavior i described in my previous posts when in CATIII disappeared. It must have a been a relic dat file from an early or incomplete update patch. I may still have it somewhere in my installs partition if someone wants to examine it more closely. One thing i blundered though, is i though i had backuped my config file. Now half the commands are unbound
Does anyone have a spare config with the BMS standard layout i can use to override mu own?one tool that i find invaluable when working with FM’s is winmerge. It allows you to compare files line by line, side by side. That and alot of trial and error.