Stick Sensitivity
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Well then, your only options are either Falcon’s axis saturation presets, or getting used to the FLCS as it is. For all I know, after somewhat getting the hang of the latter, I discovered it had also made me a better flyer in FSX & IL2.
Doesn’t adjusting saturation only increase sensitivity? I agree with getting used to the FLCS.
thrustmaster t-flight stick x. best cheap joystick you could get. bought it 4 years ago in sales for 15 euro. recently it cost 50 euro… like the similar t-flight hotas x.have also tried x52. mine handles better
I used that stick before and still have it (Now using Warthog). It will work fine if not broken. You have to be easy with the stick and no dead grip. When tanking I use mostly 1mm radius around the center. Coming from X-Wing I am used to large stick throw at first but you can getting new muscle memory with practice.
I am the worst virtual pilot on my virtual wing. If I can do it, you can do it. I spend 2 weeks before getting my first successful contact with refuel tanker.
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In no other sim did i need to use just 10% of motion to land.
friz either your other “sims” modelled aircraft that require a lot of yanking and banking to control the aircraft, or they were not really “sims”…
then again, admittedly the aircraft I have flown were intended to land at Vs. you land those with the stick touching the seat. The F-16 still wants to keep flying at its intended landing AoA due to the location of the landing gear.
i won’t buy a 300$ force joystick to be able to fly only in this game.
so just to let you know, if you buy a $300 stick, you can use it in any game, BMS will not hunt you down and attack you for using a force sensing stick for say war thunder.
this is a sim and you try to overrate it.
I dont understand… you imply BMS can be overrated…
if i was a freak i would join the air force and not play this sim. most of us are just enthousiasts not professionals.
so air force pilots are freaks? I can see -that- being a popular opinion… NOT
i won’t kill myself if the curve isn’t the x^1/58 expo the real thing has. the geeks can still buy fancy equipment to experience this curve.
again, youre really not going out of your way to make friends here. if you want something from a developer team with limited time on their hands, you might want to do away with both stick and carrot and try honey and milk instead.
You’ve already inserted simplified flight options. Why not add this? I’ve already been told that it’s difficult to add but seems like you’re mainly too proud of the original setting
lol troll alert. the simplified options are not “inserted”, they are “not yet removed”.
as the SME Mav-jp mentioned, if you decrease the sensitivity of the stick in the center region and increase it in the middle region you are going to screw the controls. good luck doing more than take offs and landings.
as you yourself said, it is a sim. that does not mean that you should use it for arcade purposes…
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thrustmaster t-flight stick x. best cheap joystick you could get. bought it 4 years ago in sales for 15 euro. recently it cost 50 euro… like the similar t-flight hotas x.have also tried x52. mine handles better
I’ve got the same and have no similar issues, which indicates your problem lies elsewhere.
It is true I don’t feel as if I have the ‘resolution’ for super-fine control that some others seem to have and that does make flying close formation, for example, difficult. However basic control elements (for weapons engagement for example) up to and including tanking, landing/aero-braking, etc., are not an issue at all with this stick using the realistic Flight Model.
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I have flown actual aircraft(no flcs)and i’m sure fsx has perfect handling in regular flight envelope(not aerobatics).It’s pointless doing criticism with all these quotes unless you have something useful to say.What you guys don’t seem to admit is the simple fact that force sensitive joystick provides a exponential resistance while you pull the stick while the motion one provides linear if not stable. The exponential resistance counters the exponential input and the curve results good in respect to the input force in force sensitive joystick.This DOES NOT work in motion joysticks.For us motion users another curve is needed.Getting used to it doesn’t solve the problem it’s just compromise
I’m not greedy i have already thanked the creators from the first post about their work,and i think this option is the only thing the game lacks -
This DOES NOT work in motion joysticks.
This DOES NOT work for you sir. I have no problem to perform AAR even with a 10€ joystick … so, why not you with a T-flight stick X!?!
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the point isn’t whether i can fly,the point is that i can’t fly the fighter as it should fly. fly fsx with your force joystick and i’m sure you’ll notice it being too unresponsive as the HOTAS will provide resistance too steep,the opponent of what i’m talking about here now
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I don’t even understand why you put FSX as reference.
BTW, they’re will no change about that, end. -
the point isn’t whether i can fly,the point is that i can’t fly the fighter as it should fly. fly fsx with your force joystick and i’m sure you’ll notice it being too unresponsive as the HOTAS will provide resistance too steep,the opponent of what i’m talking about here now
I have no problems either in Flight Simulator. The only problem with the force sensitive is for old plane (ROF) … it is not comfortable to have a non moving stick on a plane not equipped with trims. (I had to program trims on the stick via FOXY software)
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I have flown actual aircraft(no flcs)and i’m sure fsx has perfect handling in regular flight envelope(not aerobatics).It’s pointless doing criticism with all these quotes unless you have something useful to say.What you guys don’t seem to admit is the simple fact that force sensitive joystick provides a exponential resistance while you pull the stick while the motion one provides linear if not stable. The exponential resistance counters the exponential input and the curve results good in respect to the input force in force sensitive joystick.This DOES NOT work in motion joysticks.For us motion users another curve is needed.Getting used to it doesn’t solve the problem it’s just compromise
I’m not greedy i have already thanked the creators from the first post about their work,and i think this option is the only thing the game lacksOne thing is sure: i will never code a possibility to change the curve , reason is simple, i don’t want to pull my hair out in the future answering to zillions of message saying they dont manage to adjust the curve to make the FM right.
If you don’t want to believe me when i tell you that the built in curve is the best you can find, FINE, but thread close for me.
When you enter the real AC you don’t have the opportunity to change the curve, same in BMS …you don’t like it ? Simplified model is for your this is the only reason we kept the possibility to use OFM (simplified model) for those who are unable to fly the real f16.And for your information, i developed the AFM during 6 years with a stock cougar i.e. displacement and i never had any problem to control the AC
Now you have the answer from the FM coder, now move on, we don’t owe you anything
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Roger that
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I don’t know what airplane you flew or what your experience is, but FSX is a piece of crap regarding flight model …. i never saw a C-172 with so much agility.
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I have flown actual aircraft(no flcs)
join the club - we have epaulettes.
i’m sure fsx has perfect handling in regular flight envelope(not aerobatics)
purely out of interest, what aircraft was it you felt had perfect modelling? FSX is a survey sim… you try the sportstar available for FSX and you will know what I mean (provided you have flown a sportstar IRL).
.It’s pointless doing criticism with all these quotes unless you have something useful to say.What you guys don’t seem to admit is the simple fact that force sensitive joystick provides a exponential resistance while you pull the stick while the motion one provides linear if not stable.
okay. a force sensing stick has almost precisely zero movement. what this means is that it provides precisely the same resistance as the force that is applied to it. if you apply a force to it, it pushes back with almost the same force, until its structural integrity is compromised. this means that the stick has exponential resistance increase with respect to time if you increase the force on the stick exponentially with respect to time. its resistance with respect to force is linear, and directly proportional. LINEAR.
on the contrary, a displacement stick provides less resistance than the force you apply, until you weaken the force you are applying. its resistance is close to constant. this means that you are adjusting the position of the stick whenever your force you apply exceeds its resistance, until you reach its “stops” at which point its resistance is linear with respect to force applied, until you break the stick.
The exponential resistance counters the exponential input and the curve results good in respect to the input force in force sensitive joystick.
if you apply an exponential force on the stick with respect to time, then the resistance is exponential with respect to time. that value is read directly by a strain gauge in the stick and reported to the PC. the PC in turn may apply a transform or “curve” to that value, before reporting it to DI as a joystick axis input. at this point, BMS sees it and applies its own curve again. as far as “results good”, it seems to work pretty well for me.
This DOES NOT work in motion joysticks.For us motion users another curve is needed.Getting used to it doesn’t solve the problem it’s just compromise
I’m not greedy i have already thanked the creators from the first post about their work,and i think this option is the only thing the game lacksI like that word, compromise. Id like to refer you back to your own words on not wanting to join your air force due to not being a freak. short of flying a real fighter jet, the sim is just a compromise. you are correct.
as for not working, well I am one of the people who cannot use a motion stick for BMS. it just doesnt work well for me. however, I understand a large number of people do just that, so it seems I am not a majority in that respect.
the point isn’t whether i can fly,the point is that i can’t fly the fighter as it should fly. fly fsx with your force joystick and i’m sure you’ll notice it being too unresponsive as the HOTAS will provide resistance too steep,the opponent of what i’m talking about here now
I presume you mean “opposite” not opponent… either way, I do in fact fly FSX on occasion, as a procedures trainer. you might like to note that I use my X65F for that, although seeing as I now have an FCC3, the next time I dust off that CD it will probably mean the use of the FCC3 instead. for your easy reference, both the X65F and the FCC3 are moderately popular Force sensing sticks.
Im leaning in the direction that the point does in fact lie with your flying ability…
Roger that
Thanks be….
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Could you stop quoting and criticising everything i say like a frreaking ESSAY teacher?I was talking about resistance in respect to motion away from center.That means the curve we’ve been talking about has in the x axis the distance away from centre and in the y the resistance force(stick moves millimetres but that doesn’t matter). A curve of resistance in respect to the input force would of course be useless as they’re equal
My assumption for which i 'm not sure about but makes sense is that the force stick has the curve’s “belly” upward so the 1st derivative is exponentially decreasing ,in the fashion of the flcs curve.That must be due to the unconventional design of the stick,which has no springs but a different way to resist.
The equation would finally be in the form of “x^1/k” or “k(1-e^(-x))” which hopefully mavjp will confirm is the flcs curve.
I’m not entirely sure about this but the difference has to be explained somehow -
Could you stop quoting and criticising everything i say like a frreaking ESSAY teacher?I was talking about resistance in respect to motion away from center.That means the curve we’ve been talking about has in the x axis the distance away from centre and in the y the resistance force(stick moves millimetres but that doesn’t matter). A curve of resistance in respect to the input force would of course be useless as they’re equal
My assumption for which i 'm not sure about but makes sense is that the force stick has the curve’s “belly” upward so the 1st derivative is exponentially decreasing ,in the fashion of the flcs curve.That must be due to the unconventional design of the stick,which has no springs but a different way to resist.
The equation would finally be in the form of “x^1/k” or “k(1-e^(-x))” which hopefully mavjp will confirm is the flcs curve.
I’m not entirely sure about this but the difference has to be explained somehowThe flcs curve is indicated in FM article available on this website
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@ fritzstler: I get the impression, that you stick is not right (who knows). Do you have any chance to test a different stick?
Why i am asking this is, because one could fly this FM with a “banana” and still would be able to understand the FM in it reading the documentations provided.This is the most natural FM i have ever flown, whereas some other sims made me aswell “tweak” the “curves” as the FMs there were not really able to deal naturally with linear inputs.
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now you have me confused friz. for your supposed graph, y is the resistance the stick applies to you, and x is how far the stick moves? possibly you mean the input value that the stick reports to DI. if that is so, for the force stick we still have a linear graph, between 0 lbsf and 25 lbsf. for a motion stick we have a graph which is going to vary depending on the springs used, but should be roughly linear in terms of the resistance to the input. it should be perfectly linear in terms of displacement to the input.
the difference between the two graphs if we look at resistance is that the force sensing stick will have a lot more resistance. the “10%” sweet spot that you make 90% of your adjustments in is easy to use on a force sensing stick, because you can have a heavier hand to make it with. in contrast, to make it to the stops and use the 90% of the input range (which you only do maybe 10% of the time) you have to really pull on it.
by contrast, a motion stick has much less resistance, as it has to move. the only resistance is the force the springs apply, which increases as you move from center. this less resistance means you need a lighter hand on the stick to make the adjustments around that 10% range. additionally, the motion stick can have mechanical imperfections that give a “dead zone” in the middle where inputs are ignored. this cannot happen on a force sensor stick.
in terms of the two sticks having a different “curve”, you are flat out wrong, I am sorry. the FLCS curve is hardcoded into the game and applies whether you use a hand cranked potentiometer or an industry strain gauge. yes, you can program any stick to have a response curve - but for BMS, you should not. regardless of stick type.
the “difference” you are stuck on is hardware specific. installing a “curve” will not make your stick resist any better or worse.
I do not recommend trying to fly BMS with a banana, but if you have the opportunity, I recommend trying out a force sensing stick. the difference is right there - and no software curve will fix that difference.
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you are right,the force stick may indeed be linearly resisting but just very heavy to pull so you need a bigger magnitude of effort to use the 10% THOUGH you’ll still be able to reach the 100%! My motion joystick has gotten soft with time(4 thousand landings in fsx with it) ,this may be the reason i’m having trouble keeping in the 10% area where landing happens.
The stick curve in the documentation gives g commands to the flcs which confuses me more.Plus it’s almost linear which doesnt make sense according to what you have said about it in the past.But i think the cause has been finally determined.I lie satisfied -
well like I said - I myself have lots of trouble trying to use a regular stick - apparently I have a heavy hand for inputs. I now use a force sensing stick with the sensitivity turned all the way down…
I definitely recommend it - though as you pointed out, you do need to drop a fair bit of money to get hold of one.
still, if you find yourself down under in south WA sometime, give us a yell and you can try out this one - you wont wanna go back to a displacement joystick.
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Hey frizstyler. It’s been a long time and I don’t know if you still having problems.
If it helps:
Have you try DXtweak2? you can change the values of the joystick with this software and it’s very easy…Take a look how it helped me
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?18312-AV8R-roll-axis-bar
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Well this was a useful thread, thank you. Kudos to the developers. I noticed you guys left the pdbs in the files :). Anyway I too was having problems with sensitivities with the G940 but managed to adjust things a tad. The rest will be practice. I found this site the other day and still have the original Microprose disk, docs and maps. Never thought I would fly it again but kept the stuff because it was just too cool to throw away. Anyway, thanks again for bring me back to this 20 year old sim.