FO - Battle For Balkans Theater
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Stupid question here. Do I need to install the Balkans theater, textures, etc. BEFORE I install the campaign?
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http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/sCo_huhsign.gif Means no theater related SIM- folder (to be declared in *.tdf) for 4.33 at all?
… so if I want to use Molni’s DB for (just one) example, then I would have to write a F4Patch,
or backup/ copy … back and forth?Or if I want to use community’s 3D AC- models, for (another) example,
with it’s associated AC.dat file (animated landing gear, etc.),
then I would have to write a F4Patch, or backup/ copy … back and forth, too?Come on Mav’, with a delocalized SIM- folder it would be really easier for community/theater devs,
without touching the originally korea DB.On the other hand there wouldn’t be a reason for delocalized OBJECT- folder as well. http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/headscratch.gif http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/shrug.gif
Cheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LSSIMDATA = AICRAFT PERFORMANCE
AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE IS NOT THEATER DEPENDANT.
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I see no reason, ATM, for this debate at all.
K’ There was a small misstep in the implementation of a Theater Mod for BMS. That is all.Egos aside.
We, Theater Devs, have asked for a SMALL change to the Code to Externalize said files so that we may include them “Theater Specific” to our endeavors.(Been done B4)
Much easier than F4Patch or other approaches. Leaves the core files alone. If we F**k it up in our Theater, so be it, we’ll learn how it fly’s.The US against THEM tone of this thread clearly states to me the unwillingness of one party to collaborate with the other party and move Falcon forward, that makes me sad. and tired.
As well, the statement of Lock the Database reminds me of a past involvement where we did lock it.Then went on to lock the Campaigns……what a waste of time and effort.
Not much for that version happened anymore…Did it?? Might as well been Lost Pursuit.The FO Devs, both old and new, have brought ALOT freely to the BMS\Falcon MP Community.
Let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot over this.
It would benefit us all if we moved forward Together!!! Try it, you might like it ;
I might even take Timeout to fix the SP4 Database…LOL!!!
(18 Months last time, but here no pesky, did not convert right DXM’s…ROTFLMAO!!!)Demer
(BTW This is a personal statement from me, and may not reflect the view of Falcon Online) -
They have the FM dema, as far as I understand AS sent it to Mav-JP a few months ago to evaluate it. It is not us who made this FM.
At that time i heard about a new FM made for a new plane (Su-27) and it was not entirly clear to me who is working on it so i pm-ed Mav-Jp if he is at least involved in this enterprise, because i could already tell, where this will lead (seen it before).
Unfortunatly he didn´t even know about it. My early recommendations afterwards to the makers was to invovle Mav-Jp to AT LEAST take a look at it as he is the person, who truly has an understanding of the FM integrity and definitions within BMS - asking can´t hurt, right?
What happened afterwards i can´t tell.Globally speaking:
Theater developers enjoy a big freedom with their own file integrity within the Add-on and the “fall-back” structure of BMS (compared to other sims) and it allows them to create phantastic extenstions for BMS.
Of course there are still couple files, which would be better suited if they would be externalize-able aswell instead of being inherited (such as theater specific particle.sys i.e or com-string files as Echo suggested).On the other hand there ARE and HAVE TO BE common global files, especially very sensitive ones such as FMs and weapons data.
Why am i saying this?
Well, if theater builders would be able to create their own airframes or weapons data or FMs, it would consquently lead to disagreements within the community at one point, as such files are the COMMON BASIS for ALL training environments and conditions - regardless theater.
I would highly recommend everyone to elaborate such edits with enough real data backing it up and send them to the DEVs with a request to implement them in a next update, so those will be released as a global established basis for all - and the BMS team should give external DEVs a chance to express themselfs too, if they have a legit point as this can be very valuable for them too. This progress is two-directional.
Right now it might not be so clear how important or sensitive those things can be as F4 has entered the bigger multiplayer scale not too long ago with BMS (which made it possible), but as more important multiplyer becomes (especially competition and anti-cheat wise) it will become more and more clear WHY we can not “fook” around with every file as we wish.
Coming back to a 2-sided coin as Arty named it:
It IS a sim purposly not encrypted nor protocted (like AF), so the community HAS the abiity to mod and develope further within it. Don´t forget this!
BUT, as multiplayer becomes more and more important (servers, communities, competitions, online matches etc. etc.) few files have to be “locked” or at least validated to be the same or this community will face what other sims have faced before - the LACK of trust in MP and a declining interest in MP after a while. ****, even currency is 97% virtual and based on trust, lol.
Gentlemen, for a loooong time we the falconeers were a community splitted in our own corners (groups, languages, countries, squads) and we have enjoyed this sim for too long playing with our own friends and against the AI. BMS opened a whole new dimension with its new MP code and stability and we can see where this lead us.
Now worldwide people meet and fly with and against eachother who never have heart from eachother before. The community (and its activity) increased dramatically, because this very simple fact contains a HUGE potential (a reason, why i initially “puhsed” for the FO idea in the first place).
The true strenght of a simulation shows with its ONLINE membership !!! and the success of a sim-product raises and falls with the same (see history), but as more and bigger the online part becomes, as more important it will become aswell to have certains things (files) to be the same for everyone (the non-socialist way, lol).
cheers all
PS: Meanwhile, a double-install (a 2 minutes copy paste and rename 2nd game folder) doesn´t hurt for whose who like or want to.
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Stupid question here. Do I need to install the Balkans theater, textures, etc. BEFORE I install the campaign?
No, BfB 1.12 is a oneclick installer.
SIMDATA = AICRAFT PERFORMANCE
AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE IS NOT THEATER DEPENDANT.
True, but I’m talking about replaced community AC’s and it’s associated AC.dat file,
(for example again) where some values must be changed for gear, lights, CG Loc, etc.,
… maybe even with originally aircraft performance.For me it’s easier to create a Add-On-MY_MODS folder with a customized DB
and it’s SIM- folder, then to end up in SIM- folder copys or whole BMS- folder copy(s) or F4Patches.
So I can simply switch between customized and original DB, using the “Theater” button from the UI.
… and keep the stock SIM- folder untouched.If a delocated SIM- folder option would already exist,
then there would have been no problems with the Su27.dat (modified stock DB).Mav’, I see no disadvantages, but advantages in a delocated SIM- folder,
except I dunno how hard and time intensive it would be to implement it.So what would you lose (beside time and effort), … and what could the community win?
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Mav’, I see no disadvantages, but advantages in a delocated SIM- folder,
4.33 will validate memory based the Simdata files and SIMCHECK (once finished lol) will control additional proceedures to ensure all crucial files (and more) are the same for everyone on competitive online multiplayer plattforms.
There is the problem
Singleplayer pilots/modders don´t have (see) that problem, i can understand that.
…time to go back to topic…no?
Thread: Battle For Balkans released
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Thanks for all your hard work (both BMS and theater devs), looking forward to to try out this new campaign over the next couple of days!
hoover
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AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE IS NOT THEATER DEPENDANT.
It is mod-dependent. Theaters are sometimes mods. Ergo, sometimes it is theater-dependent.
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It is mod-dependent. Theaters are sometimes mods. Ergo, sometimes it is theater-dependent.
ok
and in 3 years, we have 15 different version of BMS around depending on the “mods” …and then the game begins !!
The fact that Modders claim for independant DB or SIMDATA folders just shows that they dont agree with BMS’s Choices… and the dont bring sufficient evidence or arguments that their “modded DB or Dat file” shall be included in BMS.
That is why BMS will only support the offical release …and will not spend time on modded stuff.
Best practice for FM : Send modified Dat file WITH associated EM charts to BMS dev team for official DB inclusion
Because what will be next ? a F16 FM mod ? …
i can garantee that if this day comes, i will make sure F16 SIMDATA will be locked, because i have not spent 8 years of my life on something to let somone ruin this work
but i am sorry , i am mixing mod and theater, i thought Balkan was a theater …now i realize this is a MOD …then if this is a MOD, this may or may not work correctly in the near future…
by the way, have we a working blakan theater ? (because in 12 years i have never seen it working …)
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OK Mav but FM’s are just one part. What about the rest?
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Mav there are legitimate reasons to modify the FM for a theater, examples:
Non performance related:
1. Different 3D models which need different values for gear etc
2. Local country modifications such as number of chaff / flare, TGP, HTSPerformance related:
1. Different empty weight (upgrades again)
2. CFTs
3. Country specific missiles / bombs -
try it, maybe you love it. Is very nice. With the limitations the guys at FO have they did a very good job.
MOD, Theater, SIM, GAME who give a … Is great we all spent time in it. Lets appreciate that and move along… -
Mav there are legitimate reasons to modify the FM for a theater, examples:
Non performance related:
1. Different 3D models which need different values for gear etc
2. Local country modifications such as number of chaff / flare, TGP, HTSPerformance related:
1. Different empty weight (upgrades again)
2. CFTs
3. Country specific missiles / bombsmmhhhhh
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Well Echo7 according to Mav-jp sayings u can send those data and models to BMS and ask them to put them in.
The only problem here is that the theater developer must wait for the BMS update so that his theater will be as he wishes. -
Great relese
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The fact that Modders claim for independant DB …… folders just shows that they dont agree with BMS’s Choices…
To be very honest with you. The stock data base, which is made to serve as an universal db is indeed - sorry to say - not well made, almost SP4 ancient.
There have been soo many improvements made within, we could talk a week just elaborating details and flaws and errors. Don´t underestimate the brains outside Mav-Jp. People can be smart.But even IF the stock db would be “perfect”, each single theater NEEDS its own database, because it is just part of the theater editing as much as tiles and tacedit edits, part of the adjustments required for specific scenarious etc etc. SIM-data files should be at best uniform and global…totally agree.
We as external devs look very closly what you guys do and i have been told the DEVs also look what we do, which is good if true.
My personal wish would be more communication and cooperation between eachother and not this distanced working, because im 100% sure, that both would benefit from that.Imo, the only true solution, because with the same goals, we are not enemies.
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Wasn’t this the case that molny sent his stuff repeatedly, only to be ignored?
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please dont flame, try to be on topic
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@A.S:
The stock data base, which is made to serve as an universal db is indeed - sorry to say - not well made, almost SP4 ancient.
agreed