AI in cahoots with the ATO
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I have never seen that probably because I fly using rookie for forces level. Looks crowded.
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I think the devs have already stated the the AI is porked to a certain degree. There have been talks about the AI before being too weak or too strong (in this case). They also mentioned that an AI re-work would be very involved and take quite some time to modify properly. So, we are left with what we have now for the time being. It is possible that 4.3.3 will have some AI re-work done. Don’t hold your breath, but it is possible. And if not for 4.3.3, then at some other point there will be AI re-work done. I do believe it is a priority, but you have to look at the work involved and what extensive work needs to be done. FBMS is liken to a spider web. If you adjust some of the strands in the web, then other parts of the web come undone.
this being the case (that it is difficult to modify the campaign ATO AI) and taking into account the other replies in this thread (turn HQ off - humans assume a more “hands on” approach to ATO generation) perhaps we should focus on anything we can do to help out the human players - ?
such as…
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start the campaign with as much “HQ off” as possible
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enter the campaign editor UI with the clock “off” (the AI is “working” in the background as long as the clock is running - the first thing i do when i enter the CE UI is turn off the clock)
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start the campaign with the clock stopped (give humans a chance to get ahead of the AI and make assignments)
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.- any other suggestions ---- ??
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Small idea for future, would it be possible to separate hq settings, so we could manage paks manually And other options would be still under hq control , pak"s are number one problem for ai, too early deepstrikes etc…
Yes , AI will be always bit stupid but AF got it some way better than we have in bms now so maybe some light improvements can be done.
PS . I don’t mean to whine or anything. I just have only Stock falcon 4 And AF so those are where i can compare.
I do not understand? … there is nothing that we can’t make under BMS comparing to AF except taking the control of ground units. In BMS, you can synchronize a given squadron or not to HQ (in AF it is all or nothing via the Priorities/PAK window)
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I do not understand? … there is nothing that we can’t make under BMS comparing to AF except taking the control of ground units. In BMS, you can synchronize a given squadron or not to HQ (in AF it is all or nothing via the Priorities/PAK window)
Yes, but i mean that it would be nice if we could just adjust pak’s manually and rest (target type, mission type) two settings would be still in HQ control.
And i just think that AF has bit better ATO or Mission generation AI , i may be wrong too … need to test and compare more. (time will gold memories , and it almoust year since i last tryed bit AF… (flight model feels weird after bms adv model )
No hard feelings, my limited english limits to explain things like i think em :?
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Yes, but i mean that it would be nice if we could just adjust pak’s manually and rest (target type, mission type) two settings would be still in HQ control.
I am really sorry mate … I still do not understand (?) … adjusting PAK manually … we can. Or you mean ons specific setting per each area?
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He’s asking that when you start the Campaign, that the player would be able to adjust the PAK map priorities, and by doing so, it doesn’t affect the Set by HQ for the Target Type/Mission Type settings either.
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@ Sorry Cloud, I’ve edited accidentally your post and I’m unable to retore your entire post. Sorry for that.
@Cloud:
He’s asking that when you start the Campaign, that the player would be able to adjust the PAK map priorities, and by doing so, it doesn’t affect the Set by HQ for the Target Type/Mission Type settings either.
Oky.
But is doesn’t really change anything since those settings (HQ) are scripted in the campaign definition. So, HQ settings doesn’t really change dynamically and doesn’t depends on the actual situation.
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@ Sorry Cloud, I’ve edited accidentally your post and I’m unable to retore your entire post. Sorry for that.
Why in the world would you edit my post??
And there is concern that it actually would change things as I have checked, due to the fact that if the Target Type/Mission Types are changed to not being controlled by HQ, that in different postures during the campaign, Offense/Defense, then does that affect the fact that the 5 .pri files are being utilized, Attrit/CAS/Intdict/Offense/Defense would be followed, or does it stay on the default setting once you change the PAK Map priorities and they also get changed from controlled by HQ.
Like I said, it would have to be looked into further. I don’t have the code, so I don’t know how the .pri files are being utilized nowadays.
Still don’t know why you would edit my post???
C9
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once you change a PAK or mission priorities slider the set by HQ is off. And once you click on start the campaign the ato will generate missions hence it is crucial to edit the ATO before starting a new campaign. Those are your options.
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once you change a PAK or mission priorities slider the set by HQ is off. And once you click on start the campaign the ato will generate missions hence it is crucial to edit the ATO before starting a new campaign. Those are you options.
At this point, we’re not worried about ATO controlled missions, I’m talking about otherwise.
But I do understand your concern also, because it does work into the equation.
C9
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@Cloud:
Why in the world would you edit my post??
C9Having moderation rights, I simply hit accidentally EDIT instead of REPLY WITH QUOTE. Too late when I’ve realized my mistake.
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No I won’t give up on this. Again as I have worked VERY hard to beat back the red horde here the ato will insure I lose Kangnung AB. Very irritating…
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this being the case (that it is difficult to modify the campaign ATO AI) and taking into account the other replies in this thread (turn HQ off - humans assume a more “hands on” approach to ATO generation) perhaps we should focus on anything we can do to help out the human players - ?
such as…
-
start the campaign with as much “HQ off” as possible
-
enter the campaign editor UI with the clock “off” (the AI is “working” in the background as long as the clock is running - the first thing i do when i enter the CE UI is turn off the clock)
-
start the campaign with the clock stopped (give humans a chance to get ahead of the AI and make assignments)
.
.
.- any other suggestions ---- ??
I think that an expanded flight package generator (i.e. being able to task flights, like a wing commander) might be an awesome ability. Think of being able to generate flight packages, including loadouts and tasking priorities, would be incredible in campaign mode. We have a limited ability to change flights in campaigns now, but to create flight packages and being able to tasks them would be awesome. Don’t know if that is doable, but it would be great to do it.
Like most of my other ideas, it may be too time consuming, too difficult or not able to do at all given the current abilities of the current FBMS code.
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create flight packages and being able to tasks them would be awesome. Don’t know if that is doable, but it would be great to do it.
Like most of my other ideas, it may be too time consuming, too difficult or not able to do at all given the current abilities of the current FBMS code.
I dont know if I understood you correctly, but you can create a package now (right clic on the map, “add package”). Then, you can select flights you created and change waypoints, loadout…. Thats pretty much what you described.
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Yes.
Uncheck ATO by HQ the you have full control of ATO => you can build your own and manage the packages as you like.
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not to mention you should be able to do it while letting the ATM manage the squadron if you do it far enough in the future.
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i usually just fly with friends and we just run our own squadron. makes pretty certain that you’ll always have enough aircraft ready to go, and it means you can plan your own stuff without the AI dictating you go on a suicide mission to pyongyang through the 15 barlocks on the way there surrounded by uncountable SA-2/flak battalions day one 10:00.
if you guys are still using AI fragged flights primarily, i’d encourage you to learn to frag your own stuff, it’s much better all around.
the AI can handle the rest of the theater well enough though.
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For fragging a package, small UI amelioration can be helpful in the campaign engine (even though the UI is a perillous jungle).
To know which aircraft are available, all you can do now is try to frag the package and be answered “no aircraft available” if the squadron you selected has nobody ready at the times you requested.
Instead, you can imagine having a window with a table, with several columns :
1 Squadron name
2 Airbase
3 Type of aircraft and number still operationals (squadron list will be sorted by aircraft type by default).
(Basically, OOB data)
4 Aircraft immediatly available in the squadron
5 through 8 : Day/time at which next 4 aircraft will be available, and (if possible) why (mission return, out of repairs, refuel…).This way you can have an idea of when you can frag your package, and the risks of abort if too many aircrafts are down in previous missions.
Next 4 ships is an example, it can be more of course.
Accessing the data might not be that big a deal in the code, but working in the UI might. Its adding a feature though, not redesigning the whole deal.
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Instead, you can imagine having a window with a table, with several columns :
1 Squadron name
2 Airbase
3 Type of aircraft and number still operationals (squadron list will be sorted by aircraft type by default).
(Basically, OOB data)
4 Aircraft immediatly available in the squadron
5 through 8 : Day/time at which next 4 aircraft will be available, and (if possible) why (mission return, out of repairs, refuel…).This way you can have an idea of when you can frag your package, and the risks of abort if too many aircrafts are down in previous missions.
That would actually be VERY useful for ATO manual fragging!
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I dont know if I understood you correctly, but you can create a package now (right clic on the map, “add package”). Then, you can select flights you created and change waypoints, loadout…. Thats pretty much what you described.
Yes, but I was mentioning tasking priorities as well. I know about creating a flight, but customizing priority tasking would be pretty cool. Example:
You create a flight package to take out a radar sight. You assign the target, but also are able to assign secondary targets, conditions to engage target, tanking conditions, withdraw conditions, and divert/alternate conditions. You also assign other flights, such as SEAD escort, with the ability to priority task them as well.
Essentially, controlling the flights tasking algorithm. Simply setting engagement priorities. Since the AI takes over on all of that, maybe allowing the human player to manage those priorities would set a better advantage against the AI tasking priorities.