Redflag RP5 V5.0 Preview
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Yep … this is what I am seeing on DEV forum. I wonder also if is wasn’t also to fix some MP issues (not sure?) … and allowing sharers.
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It suppress the far tiles system and use only near tiles. At the same times, it resolve a old MP bug for elevation.
So is normal that he take much more FPS to run, because he use only near tiles , so huge resolution tiles.Its not only the tiles but I think the terrain resolution is at the same level as the old terrain running with a -g31 (or something like that) switch. If you wish to compare performance you should run old terrain with -g31 switch and then note FPS (you’ll get ~half or even less than without the switch and less than new terrain).
So … BMS terrain engine is already a “new” engine compared to OF, FF or AF … maybe one day, it will be enhanced a bit further (?)
There would be quite a bit of worked involved to change this (including mesh collision detection). Frankly I do not have the time for this.
And yes, we need a new terrain engine.Probably not tomorrow!
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Yeah i remember the -g command :=)
I highly doubt a simple elevation grid (or mesh) improvement (resolution) WHILE KEEPING SAME TEXTURE SIZES will have a huge impact on FPS on modern machines, because its simple just a “blank” 3D elevation grid (like empty low poylgons as an analogy) and not more tiles (textures) to be loaded or processed.
Keep texture as is (L2)…allow more unique L2 textures tiles… increase elevation resolution. Infact - as example - textures can even be 2000x2000m instead of 1000mx1000m (currently) because as long a good mesh will allow to “lay” those tiles (texutres) over the better elevations …the textures will fit it naturally and cover respectively and naturally.…i think i will jump under cold water…its ridicilously hot here today…
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@A.S:
I highly doubt a simple elevation grid (or mesh) improvement (resolution) WHILE KEEPING SAME TEXTURE SIZES will have a huge impact on FPS on modern machines,
My 1st couple of quotes is from 2008
… the third from 2013.
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Copy… i ´ve read them before… someone posted same before.
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BMS reduced from L0 to L2 (250m to 1000M) terrain resolution for different reasons. One of them afaik was no more fartiles and pop-up texture. I remember there was a discussion here about that.
Why? Just because of texture resolution (?) issues?
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Why? Just because of texture resolution (?) issues?
Because of post '73 (Dee-Jays quotes)
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Errr may I add…
First Molni from 1000 to 100 will be 10 times better not 100 times. This is important. Why?
It will load 10x4=400 times more tiles (or 10x3 in some cases), and the problem ain’t on the GPU’s yeap GPU’s can cope (maybe?) with the load but HDD’s also if the resolution is upgraded and use 1024x1024 or 2048x2048 then u killed it just by that, the problem as I remember from the OLD days it was stutters - freezes which was found that it was loading freeze cause the CPU-GPU was waiting for the data to be loaded from the HDD, this was noticable even on fast Hdd back then. Ok now we have SATA and SSD but I’m sure we will pump up the resolution for sure, so we r back at the same point. (?)
Now this 10 times more detailed elevations automatically result in 10 times more CPU calculations consider this specially in a campaign… Don’t u think that this will have a huge impact on performance even with MONSTER super trooper ultra wow pc’s??? On the other hand we ask for larger Bubble… yeap right…
To do so then needs way much optimization and if u create a “heavy” theater then u r dead meat and the wagging of performance will be endless… So this is mostly why BMS did it I believe…
Also it might need optimization and on 64bit code and multicore multithread and all HELL others to bring it down to reasonable performance levels, and don’t ask for +3.000€ pc’s just to run a TE.So it’s not that simple at all IMO.
If u have the bubble size u can do the math for the tiles load demand… I remember it was done in the past… -
First Molni from 1000 to 100 will be 10 times better not 100 times.
Ok, it is not 100 times better but also not only 10 times… Surafce is a 3D object which defined by mesh. The 1000 m base terrain is defined by 4 points. How many nodes we have with same size of terrain with 100 m node distances? Not only 10 times more…
I never asked bigger bubble size.
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It will load 10x4=400 times more tiles (or 10x3 in some cases), and the problem ain’t on the GPU’s yeap GPU’s can cope (maybe?)
Hehe… NO
If one keeps the L2 textures (1000m x 1000m) and only changes the elevation to 10m resolution (instead of 1000m) … you ARE NOT LOADING MORE TEXTURES OR TILES into the memory.
That is the whole trick
Instead of looking like this (examples):
it will look more like this:
WITH THE SAME 1000m x 1000m tiles (textures) over it. And we still don´t use fartiles (no need) to safe FPS.
We still keep same tiles (and numbers and size of them) and only change the “fabric” under them.
And as result we can built stuff like this:
with the SAME 1000m x 1000m photorealistic tiles from goolge-map ie. We already use partially photorealistic tiles in some theaters (its just a picture).
Increasing the mesh resolution will definitly not have much of an impact on FPS. But if one would use ONE tile for EACH NEW elevation area…than yes…it would kill FPS, but that is not the idea.
I hope its understandable what solution i am talking about. -
Ok now it’s better to understand it… hmm looks like a nice idea… Don’t know if those two are connected in some way mesh detail and tiles number per area.
Still the CPU-GPU load will increase 10 times… and u save from the whole process the loading of the tiles… the 3d calculations will increase but as u say today vga’s I’m sure will be ok with it. -
I always wondered what prevents rewrite the code of terrain.
mmm… how about the most expensive resource?
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today vga’s I’m sure will be ok with it.
EASILY. Just fly Warthunder or try FSX with tileproxy and check your FPS. No problem at all.
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This remenber me to Joint Strike Fighter 3D terrain mesh.
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mmm… how about the most expensive resource?
Manpower on dev side or CPU? Too many people simply reject the Falcon because mostly of very outdated terrain. As I see the first line 3D models are acceptable even “eye candy guys” the terrain is simply too low detailed comparing to today’s usual level.
We still keep same tiles (and numbers and size of them) and only change the “fabric” under them.
Yes, I think about the same. I do not know what perevents applying this method.
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Manpower on dev side or CPU?
Actually I meant time, but yes you can translate it to manpower.
Too many people simply reject the Falcon because mostly of very outdated terrain. As I see the first line 3D models are acceptable even “eye candy guys” the terrain is simply too low detailed comparing to today’s usual level.
Agree, but creating a terrain engine for a computer game isn’t the same as creating a 3D model or coding most other stuff. That’s why its called engine, because it’s not only a small feature, it’s something that has effect on the entire sim.
I wish there was someone with time and ability to do it, but until that happen, we will keep using what we have now.
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it’s like the polys in a 3d model… more or less…
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I wish there was someone with time and ability to do it, but until that happen, we will keep using what we have now.
Community is big with alot of talents… just keep a door open…and you never know you might come in
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@A.S:
Community is big with alot of talents… just keep a door open…and you never know you might come in
Our door is open. And don’t think we are not getting joining requests from people, but it’s not enough to know c++ or having some ideas. If someone wants to join and can contribute really, the RV abandoned code is still floating somewhere… and in many many areas it’s same or similar to what’s in BMS…
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If I may add something to this discussion, I think, we have not yet entirely explored all there is to full visual potential of existing Falcon tiled terrain engine. What I mean here is to move more aggressively towards trying to populate terrain with 3D elements using existing and available tools and methods like Terrain Editor and BMS Editor, etc.
I admit, this also requires quite extensive manpower, but this could be perhaps accomplished (or at least better explored), by encouraging other members of this community to dive into using these tools for their own fun. Having said this, I realize that introduction of new 3D elements requires rather complex and tedious edits to DB, which is tricky and needs to be carefully coordinated. There is issue of leveled positioning of the objects related to L2 height model (discussed in depth above), and last but not the least, we still are limited to 4096 tiles.
Those are unfortunately impediments, but venturing into unexplored waters of the “new terrain engine” could be also pretty risky time and resource investment.
As an example of unfortunate failure of new terrain engine to make significant progress or change, I would point to Strike Fighters Project 1/2 and then SFP2 North Atlantic by Third Wire. The first was “traditional” tiled engine on height mesh, but with pretty robust and intuitive tools to add 3D elements. The second entirely new concept of 3dsMax sculpted terrain with various texturing and 3D elements that could be added on top of that. From whatever reason that 1st method produced rather significant number of various successful and pretty looking terrain mods, in the the 2nd the opposite was rather the truth.
I do not know all the details and neither I am aware of true current status of it, but i was active member of terrain modding community for SFP1, where I knew and truly enjoyed the process and tools Then I left elsewhere, but often just read the opinions and comments about new engine by people I knew on their forum. It was my understanding, that 2nd version of terrain just did not excited grass roots of community and eventually Third Wire has been moving from PC to tablets, or even the consoles virtually shutting the lights off on the Project.
So it is also my opinion to be rather conservative and just try to improve and explore further, what is already available and working. My 2c.