Autopilot Roll Att & Pitch Att :bug or not?
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I’m agree with you Mav-Jp: I could try this case :At 400cas @2k pull up to 25° pitch and go full afterburner.
I should see 1.0g and pitch increase. I Turn on the ATT and I should see .9g and pitch stable. I Turn off ATT, back to 1g with pitch rate. ATT on .9gI 'm going to read the real document in order to understand this point…
Thanks a lot!
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OK je viens de lire sur C6 le thread qui comme d’hab sur C6 contient un paquet d’inepties……pour changer…
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Primo le Pitch ATT est un conservateur d’attitude, pas d’altitude, ainsi ce qui est supposé rester constant est le gun cross, pas le FPM. sukhoi69, tu attends à avoir un fpm stable en virage etc…c’est donc bien le mode ALT HOLD qu’il te faut
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en ATT HOLD, il n’y a pas de prises de consigne au Paddle, la consigne est donnée dès que le pilote a positionné son gun cross et relache le manche, c’est donc un fonctionnemetn différent du ALT HOLD ou là effectivement on garde le controle en pitch roll mais ou l’avion revient à sa consigne d’altitude initiale et ou le paddle sert à prendre une nouvelle alti. C’est ce qu’on appelle le “stick steering” , il n’y a pas de retour à la consigne précédente en ATT HOLD, chaque mouvement de stick donne une nouvelle consigne
Akulax, je te cite : “or d’apres la doc, l’autopilot, devrait faire en sorte pour que l’avion revienne à position initiale en conservant pitch&roll”
Quelle doc - de merde - lis tu ?
- oui il y a un bug dans la programmation du ALT HOLD qui fait perdre de l’altitude à chaque prise de repere, mais c’est un bug du logiciel de LM , je n’ai fait que le recopier. et plus l’AOA est important, plus le “bug” sera important.
I just read the original thread on C6 forum which contains a lot of misinformation - as usual -
- ATT HOLD is a pitch rate controler, which means what is supposed to stay steady is the guncross , not the FPM . If you want the FPM be stable you shall use ALT HOLD
2)in ATT HOLD, there is no reference taken with paddle, the reference is taken as soon as the pilot release the stick. the pilot keeps 100% the control of the AC (whichi is called stick steering) and the new reference in pitch and roll is taken at stick release
- yes there is a “bug” in ALT HOLD which makes the AC take an altitude a little lower than the reference taken but this is a LM bug , i just copy / paste the LM software WITH the bug … (well this is not really a bug… more a flaw in design). …the higher AOA, the higher delta with altitude reference
by the way, the only accurate manual reference for AP use in BMS is real -1.
All other previous manuals from falcon4 are obsolete and plain wrong.
By the Way, personnal opinion : ATT HOLD is useless .
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Hi Mav-jp!
Thanks for your reply…now could you tell me please where I can find the “real” document as you told, to avoid reading bullshit docs ? because I couldn’t find the informations which you wrote on this topic on any document…
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I find ATT HOLD useful to maintain pitch during climb while I do some cockpit checks.
1. Because the human being has the tendency to move the controls while being heads down, in an unconscious effort to correct airplane attitude with reference to relative movement of the outside in the pehripherical view. By having the auto pilot in ATT HOLD, you get “relieved” by the fact that something is “controlling” while you are heads down.
2. I prefer it to ALT HOLD in some occasions due to the fact that in medium to close formation scenario, I won’t have the 50 to 100 feet pitch down moment that can “bother” wingmen.
3. I find it more precise than me in keeping a pitch attitude for a steady constant climb.
4. that’s just me
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Also question about AP , during TFR on
e.g in sea level can you turn left -right ? with TFR ON ? or you must hold Stick AP Paddle switch and then turn? -
ATT HOLD is “equivalent” to the control wheel steering on B737 and/or the “pilotage par transparence” on M2000. (but on M2000 you can change the ATT via the trim HAT which is commanding the * symbol inside the FPM into the HUD or by depressing the stick paddle and releasing it into the new attitude … this is why we are used to say that M2000 is auto trimmed in attitude… not really true, but not really wrong depending if you are in or out basic AP mode.)
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I’m also trying out the A/P in BMS for the first time. It seems that even with the AP engaged in ALT HOLD and Steering Select ROLL Mode, the Joystick seems to be still active and will allow pilot inputs of even minor amounts. This doesn’t seem correct. I should have to use the Override Paddle switch on the JS to allow an input to be made. In GA aircraft this is often call Control Wheel Steering and allows the pilot to be able to make momentary changes in attitude and then return to AP by releasing the switch.
Is this a known bug in BMS 4.3.2?
Willy
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This is not a bug at all, this is the way the F-16 works.
if you google for a dash one, it will explain this in great detail. Id link you one but links of any kind are verboten.
EDIT: If you are in a (RL) two seater, then there can be an additional source of commands as well, in that both pilots have control of the stick. If the AP is completely off, and the pilot in the back tries to go to -2G, and the front guy tries to go into a 4G loop at the same time, the nose will not move at all.
Whichever seat is set to be in command, if the pilot in that seat holds the paddle switch, then it will ignore all other sources of commands - GIB/AP inputs are ignored completely.
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I’m also trying out the A/P in BMS for the first time. It seems that even with the AP engaged in ALT HOLD and Steering Select ROLL Mode, the Joystick seems to be still active and will allow pilot inputs of even minor amounts. This doesn’t seem correct. I should have to use the Override Paddle switch on the JS to allow an input to be made. In GA aircraft this is often call Control Wheel Steering and allows the pilot to be able to make momentary changes in attitude and then return to AP by releasing the switch.
Is this a known bug in BMS 4.3.2?
Willy
Stick steering is a feature of f16 AP
You can always overides the AP with stick, however you will feel like a spring to your inputs because AP is still acting.
To temporarly disconnect the AP , use paddle
Be aware though that depressing paddle will set a new reference altitude for the alt hold
AP works 100% the same than the real