Flight manuals for Bms aircrafts
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Don’t worry about sources (russian or export customers), they exists and are well known from FM dev…
Only missing thing is time required to compile all data and to produce a BMS FM from them… this requires weeks or months of computation.
But you should see something around the Su-27 family in 3-4 weeks -
OMG OMG… Ruskies are comming guys…
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After reading Mav-jp posts on the afm subject, i can tell how silly i was in believing that there were some new data to work on! :dhorse:
I think i 'll ask directly Anatoly Kvochur if he can obtain wind tunnel testing results of Flankers and Fulcrums!
Lol, i’d be capable of such a thing……
I just wonder if the FM developers are planning some other aircrafts flight model.
Is it really impossible to get relyable CL, CD, thrust values from such old airplanes? I can’t believe it, german also have mig-29, somebody here should be able to ask the right people or look for data in the right place! But maybe im wrong againThe thing is : coding a FM this precise for the F-16 was possible because with the NASA tests they did, and made public on a scientific paper, you have a shitload of data and coefficients you can use.
Not many aircraft have such extensive data available. Especially the Cold war era ones, go figure… and for new aircrafts, (Rafale, Eurofighter, F-22…), good luck !
Or : somebody here get some time on a wind tunnel, build a few models with various elevon and flaps positions, and test every AOA every 5° and at various speeds. This for every aircraft you want to build a AFM file.
And then, for fly by wire AC, you get your hands on the gains and rules of the FLCS.
Only then you will have something comparable in quality with the F-16 AFM.
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The thing is : coding a FM this precise for the F-16 was possible because with the NASA tests they did, and made public on a scientific paper, you have a shitload of data and coefficients you can use.
Not many aircraft have such extensive data available. Especially the Cold war era ones, go figure… and for new aircrafts, (Rafale, Eurofighter, F-22…), good luck !
Or : somebody here get some time on a wind tunnel, build a few models with various elevon and flaps positions, and test every AOA every 5° and at various speeds. This for every aircraft you want to build a AFM file.
And then, for fly by wire AC, you get your hands on the gains and rules of the FLCS.
Only then you will have something comparable in quality with the F-16 AFM.
And then with this data, I think for NFBW aircraft, people can add the FM themselves. For FBW AC though, it would still need to be coded… Whats the figure Mav-JP reckons? 6 years? to make the F-16s one?
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And then with this data, I think for NFBW aircraft, people can add the FM themselves. For FBW AC though, it would still need to be coded… Whats the figure Mav-JP reckons? 6 years? to make the F-16s one?
The whole thing, yes. Only the FLCS, I dont remember. With correct documentation, it is time-consuming but not impossible.
But the whole set of laws for the FLCS, and the aerodynamic data, is not easy to obtain. Only the F-16 was studied and results published, IIRC. So short of somebody finding public source data (read the FAQ, gents) for all this for a given AC, its AFM wont be at the same level as the F-16, sorry to say.
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Or maybe you should take a look at this:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,47.15.htmlDamn. I got excited to have found new material about the Su-27, which i didn´t had yet, but unfortunatly i have those for long time already.
I also do have the original manual and performance graphs included, but the first is really hard to understand as it is in russian language.
If someone finds wind-tunnel data for flankers let me know please -
Don’t worry about sources (russian or export customers), they exists and are well known from FM dev…
Only missing thing is time required to compile all data and to produce a BMS FM from them… this requires weeks or months of computation.
But you should see something around the Su-27 family in 3-4 weeks+1
Mig-29 !!! :mrgreen:
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And without wind tunnel data, no way to compile a HFFM, right?
And are CL, CD, and the other values/coefficients figured out during wind tunnel tests? Forgive me, im no engineer, as you can see…… :nosep:
But im seriously curious.
I can’t wait for 3-4 weeks…wtf wtf wtf wtf -
And without wind tunnel data, no way to compile a HFFM, right?
And are CL, CD, and the other values/coefficients figured out during wind tunnel tests? Forgive me, im no engineer, as you can see…… :nosep:
But im seriously curious.
I can’t wait for 3-4 weeks…wtf wtf wtf wtfYou have two ways of figuring coef data.
-> you experiment with wind tunnels, and you record the force/torque created by the airflow.
You have some scaling effects to take into account (you use small models, not the whole AC), but all in all, it works.-> you compute the airflow using NavierStokes equations, a really unfriendly set of equations that you can approximate if you have enough processing power. But that is reserved to constructors, obviously : if you manage to build a NavierStokes solver on your laptop for a whole 3d AC, without having to wait a month for a result, well, hats off
As for the 3-4 weeks… deal with it
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Of course i can deal with that!
I just complain that the developers can’t put their hands on such datas, which im sure that exist. We should look for some russian engineer who’s into simulators, he could find them.
Sorta russian Mav-jp lol!
Is there on this forum any german pilot? They have the fulcrum, so maybe they can obtain official material on it. -
Of course i can deal with that!
I just complain that the developers can’t put their hands on such datas, which im sure that exist. We should look for some russian engineer who’s into simulators, he could find them.
Sorta russian Mav-jp lol!
Is there on this forum any german pilot? They have the fulcrum, so maybe they can obtain official material on it.Well, as I said, it needs to be copyright-free and not classified, for obvious reasons. So this restrict a lot.
Official materials wont be used by BMS if its for official use only.
The NASA paper & data was available for the general public.
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Good conclusion from Cruz.