Crosswind Landings / "Impossible Landing" TE / Crosswind landing advice
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Ari is disconnected as soon as wheel is turning and remains disconnected as long wheelnis turning that means even if you bounce…
This excessive yaw has nothing to do with rudder or flcs
This is purely mechanical.The lateral force from tires is proportional with the vertical force applied and with the slide ange. So when you hit hard and in crab lateral force is big generating big yaw which leads to oscillation.
Tire could slip earlier which would lead to less yawing but more lateral sliding……
I thought it was the same on M2000. Good to have your inout JP.
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One more thing to consider on the TEs for adverse weather landings. They start you off in air way to close to the airfield to let you get set up very well. The first thing to do is try to navigate about 15 or more nm from the airbase and then use the ILS to get on the Azimuth and then intercept the glideslope. It is so cool when you set your aircraft down without damaging it too bad. In the rw there aren’t too many pilots who are checked out on landing as bad as the one in the impossible landing engagement. Don’t forget too, that every aircraft has a maximum crosswind that it can safely handle. If you make a couple of passes and you are not at all comfortable with how it looks, go to an alternate with different runway headings if possible. I once saw a F-100 super sabre pilot that tried to set his C model down in Arizona during storm front. He tried it about ten times. It was getting pretty scarry because he was getting low on fuel. On the radio he was saying OLYSTITMAN IMANOTGONNAMAKEIT! He was hispanic named Cisco and they were telling him to try to settle down. The next pass he nailed it and ran out of fuel on the roll out. We had to go out with a Coleman and tow him back. We were cheering all the way. When we got out there it was pouring and blowing big tumbleweed all over the runway. Cisco was pumping his fist saying YEAMAN oh, YEAMAN, GRACIASDIOS. A lot of beers were downed later that night for our aviatore-grande Cisco OHYEAMAN! I never boot up BMS with out thinking of all those good times.
Thank You BMS we love you
Raven
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You gotta love’m and you gotta hate’m. But, regardless, you will definately need to learn how to deal with them. I discoverd a seemingly good plan for managing them. I was returning from a long interdiction mission on a night with foul weather. When I got to about fifteen minutes from Taegu Airbase, I requested a wind check. When I heard what they said, I was in shock. If you don’t know, Taegu has one single runway 14/32. It is plenty long but that was not the issue. The wind check reported that the wind was from 070 at 22 knots. Bad news. It indicated that the crosswind angle was 70 degrees from runway 14, probably beyond the airframe limits of the aircraft. As you can imagine, it was not a very good landing.
It dawned on me after that mission, what I need to do in the future, is to set a alternate which has complementart runways to homeplate. This would be good whenever the weather is marginal at best. It is good to have the Autonautical Information Publication on line wih all of the airfield data printed out. That makes selecting a base very simple. All that you need to do is choose one with a runway with a heading of 90 degrees from your home runways or close to 90 degrees as possible.
I hope that someone else get this same idea. I love BMS. It is huge challenge, particularly in the Red Flag campaign. Our side has lost a lot of aircraft. We are going to win but at a great cost. It is humbling to see an entire flight of F-15 eagles shot down by a single SA-10 site. It also humling to be locked up by a SA-11 site when I am flying below one hundred feet agl. I tend to over g the aircraft a lot while evading sams. And there is the weather, which sometime acts like another enemy trying to foil you. BMS is a lot more than a piece of software. It is a living thing which causes regard in all of our lives. My wife calls me, “Altitude, altitude.” The campaigns make us all very needy for information which is even more vital than fuel in the tanks.
Thanks to Krause too. His videos are a godsend making it seem possible to achieve true mastery of airpower. I love his style of taking things apart to show what happens and what could happen.
To fly and to win. That is BMS.
Raven
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Best way to deal with Crosswind is to touch the groud with a very low amount of vertical speed. You can display it on the HUD : its the switch next to the sidestick, on the right : VV/VAH - VAH - Off (put it on VV/VAH).
Once on the runway use rudder, differential braking, or rudder with NWS (from little stering to emergency steering) to stay on the runway.
You can use the Drift CO switch to keep you FPM on the HUD too. This way, your FPM will be drift corrected and stay in a vertical line on the middle of the HUD : so horizontally, its obviously off, but at least you know how do you fly in the vertical plane.
As for everything else, practice is key…
Having an alternate with a 90° off runway dont hurt, but its not always possible, unfortunately. But knowing how to land in crosswind is important anyway.
EDIT : as it is a recurrent topic, check out this :
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?19270-crosswind-landing-advice&highlight=crosswind
(and BTW, the search function doesnt hurt either ) -
You gotta love’m and you gotta hate’m. But, regardless, you will definately need to learn how to deal with them. I discoverd a seemingly good plan for managing them. I was returning from a long interdiction mission on a night with foul weather. When I got to about fifteen minutes from Taegu Airbase, I requested a wind check. When I heard what they said, I was in shock. If you don’t know, Taegu has one single runway 14/32. It is plenty long but that was not the issue. The wind check reported that the wind was from 070 at 22 knots. Bad news. It indicated that the crosswind angle was 70 degrees from runway 14, probably beyond the airframe limits of the aircraft. As you can imagine, it was not a very good landing.
It dawned on me after that mission, what I need to do in the future, is to set a alternate which has complementart runways to homeplate. This would be good whenever the weather is marginal at best. It is good to have the Autonautical Information Publication on line wih all of the airfield data printed out. That makes selecting a base very simple. All that you need to do is choose one with a runway with a heading of 90 degrees from your home runways or close to 90 degrees as possible.
I hope that someone else get this same idea. I love BMS. It is huge challenge, particularly in the Red Flag campaign. Our side has lost a lot of aircraft. We are going to win but at a great cost. It is humbling to see an entire flight of F-15 eagles shot down by a single SA-10 site. It also humling to be locked up by a SA-11 site when I am flying below one hundred feet agl. I tend to over g the aircraft a lot while evading sams. And there is the weather, which sometime acts like another enemy trying to foil you. BMS is a lot more than a piece of software. It is a living thing which causes regard in all of our lives. My wife calls me, “Altitude, altitude.” The campaigns make us all very needy for information which is even more vital than fuel in the tanks.
Thanks to Krause too. His videos are a godsend making it seem possible to achieve true mastery of airpower. I love his style of taking things apart to show what happens and what could happen.
To fly and to win. That is BMS.
Raven
I know (and read from your post) that crosswinds are a problem for you. I have practiced landing on crosswinds of up to 40knts. Take some time and load a TE with bad weather and high crosswinds. You will see that it is not impossible to land with high crosswinds. Patients and practice sir. You will get it. I even enjoy landing in high crosswinds.
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The F-16 is rated up to 25 knots crosswind… although it can take much more (in bms at least)
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its interesting really as thats about the max crosswind you can land the sportstar I fly in - which flies forwards MUCH slower, and has a MTOW much lower too…!
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Yeah - the verbiage in most GA planes POH for crosswinds is “Max Demonstrated” meaning during testing they tested the plane up to that value - that is by no means a limitation and many planes can far exceed that value - as long as you have rudder authority… Wind shear is what you really need to watch out for… I’ve landed a C172 at a 90 degree crosswind G22 - which if I recall correctly exceeds the book value… It takes some concentration and work… Those Skyhawks are like kites in the wind - low wings seem to handle crosswinds much better and are my preferred aircraft of choice…
Regards,
Scott -
I gotta agree, only limited experience on a high wing aircraft myself but from what Ive seen, I do prefer a low wing too : D
haven’t had enough to comment on their crosswind capability though… Twas interesting though. At my local airfield of Busselton (YBLN) the runway is built at almost 90 degrees from the prevailing wind… not ideal for easy landings, but it does mean that student pilots here learn crosswind landing techniques straight away! On the down side, it means that student pilots are restricted more often from flying than may be usual, as its not unusual to see a 15 to 20 knot crosswind there either.
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Quick tip for anyone struggling with strong crosswinds in BMS. If you touch down with the outside wheel first (i.e. nose pointing left, then left wheel) the nose corrects very stably and the simulator lands with far less drama than if you touch down with both wheels or the inside wheel. By far less drama I mean nearly no drama really.
Just an observation that I hope proves useful…
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Quick tip for anyone struggling with strong crosswinds in BMS. If you touch down with the outside wheel first (i.e. nose pointing left, then left wheel) the nose corrects very stably and the simulator lands with far less drama than if you touch down with both wheels or the inside wheel. By far less drama I mean nearly no drama really.
Just an observation that I hope proves useful…
I’ll check that, that can be useful indeed.
It make sense that landing one wheel after the other leads to less yaw oscillation on the ground due to the tire landing sideways : 1 wheel will cause half the torque of both ;). And it makes sense as well to land the outside wheel (for example: wind from the left, nose pointed left -> left wheel), because if you land the inside wheel first, your roll attitude will cause the wind to increase the roll instead of going back to level roll attitude. The wind will come under the wing, and cause roll.
That being said, the roll needs to be carefully timed : too early, it will interfere with your trajectory, causing you to turn into the wind ; too late (ie : the roll itself cause the wheel to land), you can damage your gear by touching down the wheel too hard.
Anyway, for crosswinds, first and foremost, you need to have a low vertical speed. Do that, and everything becomes much easier. Good practice for regular landings too, your flare abilities will increase greatly.
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I’ll check that, that can be useful indeed.
It make sense that landing one wheel after the other leads to less yaw oscillation on the ground due to the tire landing sideways : 1 wheel will cause half the torque of both ;). And it makes sense as well to land the outside wheel (for example: wind from the left, nose pointed left -> left wheel), because if you land the inside wheel first, your roll attitude will cause the wind to increase the roll instead of going back to level roll attitude. The wind will come under the wing, and cause roll.
That being said, the roll needs to be carefully timed : too early, it will interfere with your trajectory, causing you to turn into the wind ; too late (ie : the roll itself cause the wheel to land), you can damage your gear by touching down the wheel too hard.
Anyway, for crosswinds, first and foremost, you need to have a low vertical speed. Do that, and everything becomes much easier. Good practice for regular landings too, your flare abilities will increase greatly.
Spot on! I tend to approach as if I’m going to touch down both wheel simultaneously and roll the outside wheel down a second or two before touchdown. The roll doesn’t need to be drastic, just enough so it’s not too hard after a couple of practice runs.
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Shouldn’t you always touchdown wings level? The “one wing low” approach is specifically not advised for the F-16 due to FLCS transients switching to WOW, yes? Maybe that matters only if you’re doing the “wing low, bootful of rudder to align” type of crosswind landing and it’s OK without the rudder component.
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I dont think so. All you have to do is touchdown one wheel after the other, with a 1 or 2 s intervall ; I am not even sure the WOW at this moment is enough for transition to ground gains.
Anyway, what is sure is : NO RUDDER in a crosswind landing for the F-16. Otherwise you will mess up with the ARI.
For other conventionnal planes, it is true that you need to do wind low, and use rudder… But not in an F-16.
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I dont think so. All you have to do is touchdown one wheel after the other, with a 1 or 2 s intervall ; I am not even sure the WOW at this moment is enough for transition to ground gains.
Anyway, what is sure is : NO RUDDER in a crosswind landing for the F-16. Otherwise you will mess up with the ARI.
For other conventionnal planes, it is true that you need to do wind low, and use rudder… But not in an F-16.
Interesting. I de-crab with rudder on approach to the runway. Once I get to the Christmas trees, I get off the rudder and lean my jet (slightly) into the crosswind direction. Flare and speed brake. Just before touch down, I chop power. Perfect landing every time in crosswinds. At least it works for me. Little to no crosswinds, no need to de-crab, so no rudder.
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Interesting. I de-crab with rudder on approach to the runway. Once I get to the Christmas trees, I get off the rudder and lean my jet (slightly) into the crosswind direction. Flare and speed brake. Just before touch down, I chop power. Perfect landing every time in crosswinds. At least it works for me. Little to no crosswinds, no need to de-crab, so no rudder.
Well, you step off the rudder when approaching, that’s the important point. If you try to decrab at touchdown it usually is harder to control the oscillations.
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Switching from cross control approach (bank for anti-drift, rudder to prevent turning) to crabbed touchdown is a weird technique and it sounds unnecessarily high on workload at a critical phase of flight. In typical airplanes you do one or the other. -1 states “The recommended technique for landing in a crosswind is to use a wing level crab through touchdown. At touchdown, the ARI switches out. Undesirable yaw transients may occur if roll control is being applied at this time.”
So it’s cool to be banked but not to be applying input to cause aileron deflection? ARI kicks in rudder proportional to aileron displacement to counter adverse yaw. If ARI isn’t commanding any significant rudder angle when it cuts out ARI then the transient will be minimized.
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I might point out that switching from crabbed to cross control is how I was taught to land in a crosswind. Not that much workload…
In BMS I end up using the FPM to perform a wings level crab. Pretty easy to do when you can see where you are going printed on a HUD…
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Talked to death.
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if the crosswinds is hitting the jet from the right shouldn’t that cause the cross hair on the HUD (jet’s nose) to drift toward the right? If it did I press the left rudder to balance the pressure and the cross hair gets closer to the FPM. The thing is, under this condition, when the jet lands on the ground (with the three wheels on the ground) then it drifts left instead of right in the direction of the incoming wind. Am I missing something, I wonder?