Go for SA-2 or SA-2 Site
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F4AF modeled a EWS that worked well with the SA-10 SA-6. SAM did not go into search/acquisition mode until the target was in high pk range. This keeps a newbees from shooting them with a 70nm -88. SA-3 and SA-2 are knows fix sam installations, so they were in search mode all the time. No reason to be stealthty.
iirc the AF SA-5 was in search mode all the time. Range was greater than the -88. However, ECM was effective.
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Without going too much into the insight of how this is modeled, as doing so ruins the realism of the sim for the end-user IMO, this behavior has been in legacy falcon since SP3 as well. If a SAM is within the envelope of a longer range SAM it will stay silent until it is in range to acquire you.Anyway, I bet that many of the things we are discussing in this thread will be obsolete soon!
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Leave the SA-2, SA-3, SA-4 and SA-5 battalion radars alone. Go kill all the search radars. Fly into the WEZ of one of the SA-2, 3, 4, 5 or 6’s battalions. Report your result …. they shoot at you.
Conversely, leave all the search radar alone. Go kill all the radars embedded in the SA-2, 3, 4, & 5 battalions. Fly into the WEZ of said SA-2, 3, 4, 5 & 6. Report your result … they don’t shoot at you.
(i.e., Fansongs, Low Blows, Long Track, Bar Lock & Straight Flush)
I’m talking what does/doesn’t work flying BMS … I fly a desk, not an F-16 in a war zone.
IADS should be design to protect the search radars against long range ARM and NOE attacks. There could be CAP and low level ambush a/c CAP in the game. However, in r/l, north Korea does not have a good force. What they have is a bunch of surface to surface missiles that are pointing at South Korea. If NATO crosses the FLOT, no more airbases, no more cities. The F4 battle field is design to feature the F-16’s abilities not r/l war.
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However, in r/l, north Korea does not have a good force
The definitely are very convinced of the opposite
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IADS ……
IADS? Does BMS model IADS? If not, what difference does IADS make? …. .
Regardless, in BMS, kill the Fansong/Low Blow/Bar Lock, etc. = toothless SAM site. That’s the simple fact.
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IADS? Does BMS model IADS? If not, what difference does IADS make? …. .
Regardless, in BMS, kill the Fansong/Low Blow/Bar Lock, etc. = toothless SAM site. That’s the simple fact.
It needs more a/c flying around and more SAM imo. The older Mig-21 is no match for a F-16. But if the -21cap is inside a SA-10 threat circle they provide mutual support for each other.
I don’t DEAD in BMS.
I don’t recon AD on the UI map.
I carry HTP and one -88 for self-protection and detection.
I fly day 1 high altitude LGB strike mission with AI wingees.
The game is toothless. -
Leave the SA-2, SA-3, SA-4 and SA-5 battalion radars alone. Go kill all the search radars. Fly into the WEZ of one of the SA-2, 3, 4, 5 or 6’s battalions. Report your result …. they shoot at you.
Conversely, leave all the search radar alone. Go kill all the radars embedded in the SA-2, 3, 4, & 5 battalions. Fly into the WEZ of said SA-2, 3, 4, 5 & 6. Report your result … they don’t shoot at you.
(i.e., Fansongs, Low Blows, Long Track, Bar Lock & Straight Flush)
Well yeah, but they can fire without search radars, they’re not needed for launching or guiding the SAMs. If a SAM battery’s search radar is knocked out, they can still get updates from the rest of the IADS. However, they certainly can’t fire if their FCR is knocked out, so that’s all pretty realistic.
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I have often seen red aircraft try and pull me into a sam threat zone especially fat transports flying low and circling for extended periods of time.
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It needs more a/c flying around and more SAM imo. The older Mig-21 is no match for a F-16. But if the -21cap is inside a SA-10 threat circle they provide mutual support for each other.
I don’t DEAD in BMS.
I don’t recon AD on the UI map.
I carry HTP and one -88 for self-protection and detection.
I fly day 1 high altitude LGB strike mission with AI wingees.
The game is toothless.Can you get us ACMI, or better video, of a flight in Molni’s theater?
I just want to see how toothless the 80’s mod’s air defences are, to a seasoned pilot
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nope. what? no 70nm -88.
I think a 1950s a/c correct sim would be the best. (Guns only).
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Without going too much into the insight of how this is modeled, as doing so ruins the realism of the sim for the end-user IMO, this behavior has been in legacy falcon since SP3 as well. If a SAM is within the envelope of a longer range SAM it will stay silent until it is in range to acquire you.Anyway, I bet that many of the things we are discussing in this thread will be obsolete soon!
That’s cool.
In F4AF the SA-10 searches, acquire, goes into a RWR undetected soft-lock tracking mode in ~1 second.
In BMS the RWR displays SA-10 in search mode a lot. When I see the 10 on my RWR I got 90sec to drop bombs and egress. A few time I lose an AI. It’s high value target -
It needs more a/c flying around and more SAM imo. The older Mig-21 is no match for a F-16. But if the -21cap is inside a SA-10 threat circle they provide mutual support for each other.
I don’t DEAD in BMS.
I don’t recon AD on the UI map.
I carry HTP and one -88 for self-protection and detection.
I fly day 1 high altitude LGB strike mission with AI wingees.
The game is toothless.everyone knows the default campaign is easy. bragging about it like you’re some kind of pro because you can deal with obsolete decades ago SA-2s is like bragging about your hunting skills because you can pour cereal out of a box for breakfast.
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Agreed. Obviously you can’t ignore SA-2s, so I always try to clear them out since it also helps out the AI. It’s not terribly hard to lead a four ship and knock out a lot of them.
SA-10s however tend to demand a very dedicated mission. The circumstances they force upon you to reliably knock them out (I don’t subscribe to flying high, lobbing a HARM and turning around, it’s not accurate enough against such a mobile system) makes old SAM systems, MANPADs and AAA, heck, even small arms a considerable threat in my experience.
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it’s not accurate enough against such a mobile system) .
Actually, it is not really mobile. IRL and in Falcon, they take long to deploy. The lobbing HARM method is the safest for you, even if it is not 100% reliable and depends on the timing of radar emissions.
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They’re a great deal more mobile than SA-2s, -5, -3s, and many others, especially in relation to it’s lethality. Lobbing a HARM or two at it might be safe, but it’s just so unreliable it’s not even worth it.
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@Cik:
everyone knows the default campaign is easy. bragging about it like you’re some kind of pro because you can deal with obsolete decades ago SA-2s is like bragging about your hunting skills because you can pour cereal out of a box for breakfast.
Not bragging, I’m just trying to make the default campaign more realistic. Not reconing AD in UI means you have to deal with all SAM as “unknowns” or “popups”. The blinking tactics used by SAM AD in the 60’s does not work today. Now days SAM are mobile and use a shoot and scoot tactic to keep from be detected and located by the RC-135, JSTARS, etc. imo, it’s ok to kill SA-2/3 with a GPS weapon, all other SAMs must be hunted by weasel. Just the way I like to play the game.
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Actually, it is not really mobile. IRL and in Falcon, they take long to deploy.
Is there a table available somewhere that shows real and/or BMS values on how long it (approximately) takes a SAM system to switch from moving to track-and-launch-ready, and vice versa?
Also, considering the AGM-88 has a pretty small blast radius, it should be possible to keep the launchers in position, but move the mobile RADAR about a few 10m to avoid GPS-assisted HARMs. I doubt only moving the RADAR would be possible in BMS, though…
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SA-17s shuffling around under SA-10 umbrella, with lots of manpads and short range systems (2S6s) sown around should be enough challenge to keep you away from the area. Admitted, dodging SA-2 or SA-3 around is great fun, but good challenge would need equal amount of SAMs in value… Not so much fun anymore, without very good human ATO support. Near impossible in the game.