Aegean theater v1.3
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Thank you for your awesome work!!! I love this theater
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Great work on the 1.3 vers
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Thank you Nikos!
Having full control over your own thing makes a lot of sense to me.
This must be the reason why we now have three greec/turkish theaters.
I hope that emf and ikaros and you benefit from each other equally - aegean was around first, soā¦It is another day but I think itās ok to repeat it for today: merry christmas and thanks a lot!
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New link is working
thank you very much
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Thank you Nikos!
Having full control over your own thing makes a lot of sense to me.
This must be the reason why we now have three greec/turkish theaters.
I hope that emf and ikaros and you benefit from each other equally - aegean was around first, soā¦It is another day but I think itās ok to repeat it for today: merry christmas and thanks a lot!
+1
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Itās a wonderful Christmas gift.
Thank you very much Nikos! -
Hi my friend Nikos,
It is your call what youāll do from now-on and what you will support and for what community members (the whole community vs just some of your friends as you wrote), but please allow me to share with you my personal thoughts about stuff written in this thread.
As Mystic pointed out earlier I myself also believe that having multiple theaters covering the same area, totally un-necessary. Why? Because:
the Aegean theater that existed before EMF and give to a lot of people and virtual squadrons big times of pleasure
Yes that Turkish Aegean theater did existed before EMF. It was a try by Turkish members, and just for the history (since you claim to be around since 2005 you should be aware) another version existed before it, started by other Greek members. BUT, a new theater is now out, double in size, multiple in details and capabilities, and everybody should have their eyes wide open for what is going out there.
it is not a matter of competition, at least i donāt see it like this.My intension is not to be compared the Aegean theater with the great EMF, but simply to support it as much as i can.
You may not see it this way, or may donāt want to accept the reality as it currently is, but comparisons proof the total domination of emf vs older theaters. You may have spend too thousands of hours to work in nav charts for it, but nobody will remain flying old versions that completely luck even the 10% of the capabilities and new features of emf.
the specific Aegean theater has a superb navigation stuff
This is not Microsoft Flight Simulator, it is a combat simulator. Navigational stuff although wanted to this āgameā (and critical to my SQ too simulating reality), we, anyone, can find out rl navigational charts from Jeppesen etc and fix them for use in a theater. But, how these stuff can be described as āsuperbā as you claim, to a more than a half size theater and areas? Is Ionian sea -part included to your job? East Turkey and Cyprus? Middle East? No. So for me, your job although good, it pointed to an old and not at all superb theater-product, that not even 1 airbase is modeled realistically.
BTW, āsuperbā navigational details and areas are present only to our (16th) internal patches, not available publicly for obvious reasonsā¦ And believe me, āweā, are in position to have the full view of what is considered āsuperbā, and no similar stuff are present out thereā¦
this baby, my baby
EMF was created to dominate all other -region theaters. So realistically speaking, Aegean and Ikaros should be considered obsolete now. I and others find you, your job and your intentions towards passion for this āgameā wonderful, so please, re-evaluate reality and provide your support wisely for the new era, for all of us. Either working by your own or managing to enter and officially contribute a team, your obvious experiences from the past can help towards an improved future focused in the proper theater.
Your friend,
Panos
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Guys,
HE did it. Dot. You know well as me what.
And my best wishes to all you wise theater creators of that area.
The speech and the matters on the going are interesting, also - rare! - from the strategical point of view.
Hhmmā¦ -
BTW, āsuperbā navigational details and areas are present only to our (16th) internal patches, not available publicly for obvious reasonsā¦ And believe me, āweā, are in position to have the full view of what is considered āsuperbā, and no similar stuff are present out thereā¦
And that attitude is precisely why I see it matters little who works on what, or what releases are madeā¦ if everyone chooses to release a watered down theater and have their own custom one only available to their own group, its of little matterā¦
I havent tried EMF yet, due to download size - but its a pretty big claim to make that its mere existence invalidates every single other existing BMS theater.
EDIT:
So for me, your job although good, it pointed to an old and not at all superb theater-product, that not even 1 airbase is modeled realistically.
Tis great to say āhere, this one airbase is realistic, and all these ones here are done to look good but fictional, because these ones I dont want anyone else to have unless they are in my teamāā¦
May as well just have none of them realistic and be done with it.
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Thanks Niko & kala christougenna ya su!
I would love to see all the folks working on agean / ikaros / EMF whatever theaters sticking their heads together and cease the duplication of effortā¦ one can dream!
Thanks a lot for all your hard work!
Uwe
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I havent tried EMF yet, due to download size - but its a pretty big claim to make that its mere existence invalidates every single other existing BMS theater.
Well, it does. Its even better than FSX sceneries that cover these areas, with the solely exception of civilian airports.
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well, once Im back on fast enough internet, Ill be giving it a shot for a bit, so I guess I shall see. The map size is certainly one thing going for it. Will depend on whether or not its worth as a whole I suppose.
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And that attitude
The only āattitudeā I would like to apologize for, and actually had think of this twice before writing it down is regarding this sentence:
BTW, āsuperbā navigational details and areas are present only to our (16th) internal patches, not available publicly for obvious reasonsā¦ And believe me, āweā, are in position to have the full view of what is considered āsuperbā, and no similar stuff are present out thereā¦
While with the fear of sounding like an ego smart@ass, this is not to insult or downgrade Nikos or anyoneās work, but honestly, one should see in-person the corresponding work behind this, available only internally.
I havent tried EMF yet
So I guess you comment around although you are not fully aware of what we are talking aboutā¦;
its a pretty big claim to make that its mere existence invalidates every single other existing BMS theater.
Why exactly? What would be the main categories a theater should dominate in order to be āthe ultimateā according to your standards?
Ill be giving it a shot for a bit
Please do, for a bit, and comment your findings, maybe versus what else is out there currently.
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The only āattitudeā I would like to apologize for, and actually had think of this twice before writing it down is regarding this sentence: ā¦
Quote Originally Posted by Raptor
BTW, āsuperbā navigational details and areas are present only to our (16th) internal patches, not available publicly for obvious reasonsā¦ And believe me, āweā, are in position to have the full view of what is considered āsuperbā, and no similar stuff are present out thereā¦
While with the fear of sounding like an ego smart@ass, this is not to insult or downgrade Nikos or anyoneās work, but honestly, one should see in-person the corresponding work behind this, available only internally.I must admit, It was akward to say that the only splendid thing is something the community at large couldnāt check
So in that aspect, the āattitudeā wasnāt better than Nikos claiming his was splendidAnd please all, remember we all have different values for splendid
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And that attitude
The only āattitudeā I would like to apologize for, and actually had think of this twice before writing it down is regarding this sentence:
BTW, āsuperbā navigational details and areas are present only to our (16th) internal patches, not available publicly for obvious reasonsā¦ And believe me, āweā, are in position to have the full view of what is considered āsuperbā, and no similar stuff are present out thereā¦
While with the fear of sounding like an ego smart@ass, this is not to insult or downgrade Nikos or anyoneās work, but honestly, one should see in-person the corresponding work behind this, available only internally.
Yes, perhaps attitude was not the right word of mine - perhaps āapproachā or āconcept of operationsā would have been better.
You can rest assured your ego was not the part I took any note of, or any complaint of. My complaint lies with the three word caveat, āavailable only internallyā - And while your own internal patches MAY be superb and MAY make the theater the only one worth using from now until 4.50 (and of course, I cannot tell, can I) - without those patches, its not relevant to us. The Theater, when I finally get it on my computer, will have to be judged on the merits of the release version, rather than any unavailable patches, regardless of their quality.
Heck, it would be like saying that because USAF F-16 simulators are excellent, by definition all PC F-16 simulators are excellentā¦ and while BMS likely IMPROVES on official sims in some areas, you cannot judge one on the merits of the other.
I havent tried EMF yet, due to download size
So I guess you comment around although you are not fully aware of what we are talking aboutā¦;
Well in fairness, by your own admission no one outside your own group -CAN- be fully aware of this, due you your three word caveat - available only internallyā¦
No, as you say, Im certain Ill be better able to comment on the watered down version once Ive access to city internet. At least, I hope so - Ive had the EMF torrent going for the last couple days and its still yet to find a single seed or leech.
its a pretty big claim to make that its mere existence invalidates every single other existing BMS theater.
Why exactly? What would be the main categories a theater should dominate in order to be āthe ultimateā according to your standards?
well, a theater is never going to be āthe ultimateā - it might get closer and closer to that standard, but in practice it would never be attained.
Hell, in THEORY it will never be attained, if we limit ourselves to talking about Falcon theaters - limitations on the engine will be problematic enough.
For instance, one area I regard as being highly important is navigation accuracy, but even more important, the availability of accurate navaids. Now, the IDEAL would be simply the use of real navaids - but a fair enough substitute given engine limitations that make that improbably at best, is the use of made for falcon navaids instead.
You want a theater to be undeniably better than another, then its obviously going to come down to a lot of things - and all of those (in MY assessment at least) are going to come down to accuracy. For a theater in this part of the world, accuracy of placement of for instance churches, IM no expert to judge on - not having flown in that part of the world myself - but if its accurate, thats good.
If ANOTHER theater comes out which is in that area MORE accurate, then I would give that a mark - the theater which is more accurate in MORE areas, is going to be the better theater.
Now, not everyone considers accuracy an important metric for theater āawesomenessā - some might say scale is more important. Well, you guys have that one well and truly nailed, by the looks of things. They might instead say exciting combat, with dogfights over the runway while you ramp, and missiles that miss at the barest mention of countermeasures in conversation. Donāt know how you guys compare with other theaters that provide that already.
My point is, I can say what I think all day, but you can invalidate it easily by saying that the stuff I care about doesnt matter
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lol same old falcon history and reactions repeatedā¦
Just enjoy what is there. Who is better and superb is minor and history will tell it.
I donāt think someone does it for the claim, sure recognition is good to be established but itās too early to start fighting over it.Itās Christmas guys relax.
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Damn, Red Dog beat me to it, and much more succinctly than mine also!
Who is not relaxed Arty? If anyone is considering this a āconfrontationā or anything worth getting hackles over, there is some problemā¦ calm even discussion I thought lol!
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yep , I agree, the discussion is calm and relaxed. A welcome change for once:like Adults discussing
Sometimes Xmas does great small things
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@Arty, we just talk and exchange ideas here with blu3, not fighting for something. Everyone has his standards and points-of-views so we only use this forum for what it was intended to do: to talk.
āavailable only internallyā
You do understand that a virtual squadron or team can have some stuff implemented only for āinternal useā right? Members of such teams can benefit from stuff created according to teamās āstandardsā and āpoint-of-viewā of realism, so these stuff either are not interesting for the majority of foreigners, or are some kind of āspecial handlingā and not public. Just look aroundā¦
16th, towards 100% realism and simulating reality has implemented some navigational stuff quite some years now, that as I stated there are not implemented elsewhere, for the Greek area of operations. And just for the history of this, these stuff at a point in past they had been proposed to be offered to both EMF group as and Red Dog for official adaption on the theater and interactive map, with no interest by any side. So please allow me to believe we are a bit deeper in this area than what is currently out there.
Nikos, sorry for spamming so much your threadā¦
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I in no way ignore your groups prerogative to hold things back from the public, Raptor - This is hardly the first case in question where a group has chosen that.
However, just as I respect that you have that option, I trust you respect MY option to dislike that you have TAKEN that option
USAF take that option, tooā¦
I will, to use your words, allow you to believe whatever you like about depth
In any event, now that we have established (I think) that we both agree on basically everything, except for having a private patch - I think our off topic spam is finished
Sorry Nikos!