How many polys
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I say this because all the Drama that happens here on this Forum is too much for us to focus on other things.
there is no drama if you are straight in your shoes.
but questions are and always will be legitimate.
If you can’t take them. indeed, do not post here -
@ Deejay Thanks for the drama.
Hi Archer! … sorry about that, but as I said in my latest post, there is no drama. I know that you are playing fair game with us as proven by you ad A.S. those last months. Or at least, I can say that I have faith in your voice and trust FO managers. No problem about that.
As I said also in my last post, I honestly thought that Shadows was talking about KoreadHD (didn’t knew about that SA6 model into BfB and have no clues about it in one way nor in another. I just wonder since I saw it on N.'s shared materials and that some picture found in the WEB which “seems” to be outside Falcon4 arena and looks quite the same especially concerning textures)… but again, it doesn’t matter and do not change anything since (as you know) our rules applies to anyone including ourselves (en even more to ourselves). So this is why I asked Shadows if he knew what was the origins of the models. Didn’t knew they were (If I understand correctly(?)) from DanG.At Falcon Online we don’t steal model from other places to tell you we made it.
I know and trust you.
Using non authorized ripped model in a theater below the table and share it publicly here: The game isn’t worth the candle, and I know that you know this. (Mr N. and few other didn’t understood it unfortunately). So as far as I am concerned … I have no suspicious about FO honesty. This is important to be noted IMO.
Cheers!
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Hello
Sorry for my late answer to this thread, due to real life events. I have some considerations to make:
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The SA6 Gainfull model is a work developed from me and ozzy, i worked on 3d and ozzy worked on the textures because i wasn’t really experienced in uvw wrapping for the textures. I don’t know if he made personally the textures or used other materials. Mister N basically used some our model, except for M1A1 and M2A3 taken from a web site for public domain free 3d models. Ozzy made the mistake to share the same dropbox account with N, and N literaly stolen our works, the evidence is that in his website he claimed right on TomCatz ships. That’s mean that mister N used our models and not we used N’s models.
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I never posted link for dl or advertising about my vehicles on this forum, we (FO) only posted a link for to inform the community about an event like Battle fo Balkans. I don’t know sincerely why Shadow started this thread on this forum for a technical question about polycount in 3d models. We have in our forum a specific section for this topic, obiouvsly everyone is free to do what he wants .
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To make a comparison between two 3d models in order to claim that they are the same is not enough post 2 screenshots. What’s the strucure in 3dsmax for the original? Do you’ve some dl working link for the presumed original, in order to make a confrontation with mine. I can post my structure without problems, but i need the evidence of the “original”.
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Some other considerations :
OMG!!! How many details are the same!! Danguard copied a plastic model!! And plastic model producer copied from the real life original!! :
Guys (Red Dog and DeeJay) did you make in your life a work with 3ds max or other software for modeling? All modelers use the confrontation with reality or with another reference for to make a new work. That’s because, legally speaking, if a model differs by a single polygon from another is impossible to accuse someone of copyright infringement.
Moreover, you have said that the SA6 is the same with a smaller number of polygons. Assuming that’s true, but it is not true, for the reason given above is not legally the same work. In addition, do you know what it means to adapt a texture developed for a more complex model to a structure less complex? It’s pretty impossible because after a so big change in the structure the only one solution is to make UVW from scratch. On UWV work you can find tons of tutorials and explanation on youtube.By the way i prefer this real model in my real life right now :):
Regards
D.
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Thanks for the explanations !
However, if you think its funny for moderators to investigate on every modeler, you are mistaken…. moderators do this because its necessary. If you understand, good, if not, too bad.
And BTW, the team also have some talented modelers who can bring some technical expertise to the moderators.
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@Red:
now that’s interesting … one more bit to the puzzle !
So you are saying that Danguard made this model?
No I said I would ask Danguard. He did provide a response which you can quantify.
@Red:
We had issues with Mr N models before on this very forum. Sa-6 and M-1 were in questions:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/WB7Iuv.pngYour not the only one…
@Red:
That looks damn close to me …
I am not a modelling expert by any means so I can’t make that call.
@Red:
Back then when we investigated that issue, we found that there were websites offering models and we found models very much matching what Mr N posted.
Now you’re saying that Mr N was just a middle man and Danguard is actually the guy who ported those models to falcon?
Is that what we should understand?
And remember Mr N had an history of ripping all the work he posted here claiming to be his ….No need for the reminder, it’s a sad state of affairs to begin with.
@Red:
Good for you. My experience here with 3D modders is that only a handful of them can be trusted. Most of the 3D modders here take credits for themselves for stuff they didn’t work too hard on it.
Many guys are not even 3d modders but just convert models from one set to another set so they can use them in this sim.Appreciate the advice…
@Red:
Can you clarify that one? because I’m taking this one badly and I may overreact?
so please clarifySure. I believe it’s bad (n)etiquette to make a serious presumption concerning plagiarism when it’s only backed up with broken links, and “read between the lines” types of comments before having all the facts at hand.
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Hi Danguard!
Sorry for my late answer to this thread
Do not apologizes mate! There is no need to apologies! Real life rules for you as for anyone else here!
- To make a comparison between two 3d models in order to claim that they are the same is not enough post 2 screenshots…
Oky … thank you for this, but you took the wrong model to compare with I see that both models you are showing in your post above are not the same. You are right, It is oblivious.
But actually, I didn’t talked about this one … I was talking about the one in those following pictures (mostly in textures because I didn’t really compared the 3D model shapes):
I can’t tell you anything about this model nor where it is coming from (?) … I just found those pictures on the Web while studying N. affair. So for sure, I have no clues of anything … I was just wondering about the similarities in the textures. That is all.
I didn’t knew that the models hosted on N.'s website is coming form you:
(Pay carefully attention to the textures details (not the ID number of the vehicles, but all other details, paint scheme, camo, mud projection especially on the left side and front of the vehicle … etc … you should better understand why I was wondering)
By the way i prefer this real model in my real life right now :
I do 100% understand why!
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Sure. I believe it’s bad (n)etiquette to make a serious presumption concerning plagiarism when it’s only backed up with broken links, and “read between the lines” types of comments before having all the facts at hand.
Oh okay! Thank you.
Did I accused anyone? … I do not think so. And if you understood it that way I am sorry. I was just asking a question :https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?21405-How-many-polys&p=312194&viewfull=1#post312194
Tell me by watching carefully the pic in my post above that the question wasn’t legitimate!(?)
I have no clue of anything (and I didn’t searched for a clues) just asking IF the models showed in the pic was the same origin, and yes … I do not know IF it could simple be a rendering of the same model made by Danguard and Ozzy … or not.
So please Khronik be kind, do not put words in my mouth … as I didn’t accused anyone of anything and you know it. No need to feel threatened.
However, let me add something please:
a serious presumption concerning plagiarism when it’s only backed up with broken links
You are right and I do agree. But it is thank to presumptions that we found real clues concerning Mr N. issues. We had to (unfortunately and with big pain , non talking about the time lost) do this during hours ans hours like “muckrakers” to be able to be fair and sure of about ours decisions (otherwise, Mr N would have been banned lonnnnnnng time ago and waaaay earlier.)
So you can’t blame us to notice and pay attention to details. It is even a sort of unwanted “reflex” now. -
It’s all good Deejay. I myself would like to get to the bottom of this and I apologize if my words offended.
-edit sent via PM
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It’s all good Deejay. I myself would like to get to the bottom of this and I apologize if my words offended.
No worry … we are here to discus. And no offense taken as I can easily understand your initial remark.
Lets stay relax.
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Hello
…… I don’t know sincerely why Shadow started this thread on this forum for a technical question about polycount in 3d models. We have in our forum a specific section for this topic, obiouvsly everyone is free to do what he wants .
D.
Sir why should I not raise the issue of model poly count here, and why do you assume that I should have posted on your forum?
In case you didn’t read it, my original question was in effect “How much detail do we need ?”
And expanded into: “I just want some better models for ground units but in the 1/2/3k poly range with at least L2/L3 AND with a representative Destroyed Model as well.”
And I disagree with “everyone is free to do what he wants” we do not live in isolation.
Regards
PS: Again I say this is not the direction I had intended the thread too go.
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… Archer, you as far as we have experienced so far have presented a good product. Thankyou , and please gents or madams at Falcon Online thanks for sponsoring the download.
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But please Falcon Online and outsider like us, appreciate your sponsorship and Archer your time, dedication and talent. Thank you.… and not BMS team guys? Oh … didn’t they made a good work also before FO can put the multilayer part into a higher level?
Come on … it is a thankless post you’ve made towards your host here?
But I agree. FO made a good work … and it is not finished. They will have more do to with the future version and some feaure specificaly for their activity
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Sooooooo……let me get this straight BMS
I obtain a Model, whether Free DL or purchase it with an open Development Licence, which only states that I am free to do with it as I wish.
AND I further develop the model as the original author gave me rights to do so. AND the OA states in the EULA that any further modifications\permutations are my own and you are free to distribute as such.
What’s the BIG problem ???In many,many models\skins for FalconBMS in the past and recently, and I mean MANY……I’ve not seen a lot of “Give credit where credit is due” not even in this iteration.
Other than a thanks at the EXIT .scf…how many Falconeers even read that???Please produce to me where Ron, Steve or any of the others from Viperwear gave you a licence to use their skins…TIA…
Speaking of which…do you guys have a legit licence from Microprose\Hasbro or G2i to continue development on the .exe???
If so, please PM me with that agreement…chuckle…Mark??Duncan??Rivers???..I do agree that Nizmo and others have posted OA works as their own. But we did not IMHO see their agreement with the OA.
LMAO……just saying,
pissapointed demer -
This has become ridiculous & petty.
Benefiting no one.
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Demer the thing is the license is for u not for BMS.
BMS asks for the 3d model as well, and it’s correct to do so, so there is an issue here.
I don’t see a solution here.
The only solution is that such models will remain only for the theater and can not be used for the BMS vanila install.On the other hand if this is the case, theater only, then BMS shouldn’t bother or demand copyright matters. Sure should ask to confront with copyright issues but ain’t BMS the mean that created or distributed it.
Now the forum ain’t BMS anymore. So the guys that admin it have the problem of allowing posts of material that might have copyright issues.
So if they don’t want the trouble to check everything and loose time on it and get headaches and etc they could say guys forget it and it’s done.
This should also apply to other areas also like textures and It should go even further-deeper… but it seems only 3d dev’s are itchy on the subject. I don’t see any worries for-from the rest…
Example I done some things for Aegean which came from original Aegean then my work on Aegean passed on Ikaros… I never gave my permission for Ikaros (bad boys… :lol: Sure they have it just saying it for the example, but actually I never gave it). So should I ask them to get them off?
further more those purchased models most of the time have issues for copyright when money are on the table. I don’t see any money on the table here, except of the guy that bought them. Some to be more safe say even if money are not on the table I don’t want them to pass as originals to other hands in case money goes to another table…
So the issue get’s on the surface whenever someone wakes up the beast. In the past there was a serious knock on the door and guys went up more serious and cautious… So let the beast sleep and be on the safe side.
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Sooooooo……let me get this straight BMS
I obtain a Model, whether Free DL or purchase it with an open Development Licence, which only states that I am free to do with it as I wish.
AND I further develop the model as the original author gave me rights to do so. AND the OA states in the EULA that any further modifications\permutations are my own and you are free to distribute as such.
What’s the BIG problem ???quoting forum rules you did accept January 1st, 2015:
3. Collaborated / Community Work: Any files, mods,and/or content offered on this forum must state all contributors to any and all work included. In the event a member distributing work based on works of another contributor, he/she must have authorization from the original author for its use. Failure to comply with this policy will result in post deletion, and a permanent ban.
I’ll re explain for you Demer since you seem not to understand
COnsidering the example you provided above: The BIG problem is that you provided 10 hours of work and got credits for hundreths+ hours of work you didn’t do. Someone else did that work and didn’t get properly credited. It’s unfair to other ppl, being part of this community or not.
What is the part you guys don’t understand?Taking free models or free work from someone else is okay AL LONG AS YOU GIVE CREDIT WHERE IT IS DUE - and you have permission, that goes without saying.
that way you take a model or a skin or a chart or whatever and update it. Then provide it for download crediting all parties.
in 6 months when somebody finds your link, then he can thank ppl appropriately and not just you who provided only 10% of the work.
ANd if then an issue arise, the OP has been fully transparent and the issue can be solved quickly if not avoided all together.Isn’t the above nothing but fair?
What kind of problems do you have with honestly, transparency and fairness.
You guys always prefer to take all for you and ignore the original author?NOT in this forum mate
As a side note we perfectly understand that seeking permission from inactive guys is often impossible. And falcon has a very long history not 5% of the guys here know fully. We all know we do, but many of us know only bribes of it.
We give much leeway on “seeking permission”. But if a model is disputed and the original active author say he didn’t give permission, then what we will do as a moderation team is pretty obvious.In many,many models\skins for FalconBMS in the past and recently, and I mean MANY……I’ve not seen a lot of “Give credit where credit is due” not even in this iteration.
Other than a thanks at the EXIT .scf…how many Falconeers even read that???We don’t care who read or who doesn’t. We care about the integrity of ppl posting here.
Beside if ppl don’t read it, why is it a problem for modders to actually give credit then?
if you are honest and straight, you’ll be fine.
if you’re playing on the edge or cheating, you’ll be questionned
those are the rules and we don’t want ppl posting on this forum not respecting this very forum rules.LMAO……just saying,
pissapointed demerYou have to be a bit more looking further ahead than your own nose.
Moderators don’t appreciate one bit of the CRAP we have to go through because of wild users or stupid post
But we do it to keep the forum OPEN for the silent majority who hopefully understand what we are doing.
My own (therefore personnal) opinion is that these forum should have been closed months ago and that crap being addressed in other places, but yet I do what is required to try to keep them open because I know that for every loud speaking and questionning user here, there are 100 lurkers who need the sometimes interesting question & information posted here.So you can be pisapointed Demer, I don’t care one tiny bit. You don’t understand one bit of what is at stake