Why not make an in depth Tutorial for the simulator ?
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Complex things (such as the F-16) can be frustrating. In your situation the first thing I would do is get a stick. You say you want to get serious about it? Don’t go ultra cheap. Doesn’t mean you have to go out and grab that Warthog but something that you can map most HOTAS functions. In addition to that, having somewhat of a decent throttle will obviously help you control your speed. Flying formation, air refueling, flying corner speed and deploying ordinance (just to name a few) will require some “touch” with the throttle.
I’d also advise that if available, download the manuals to your smartphone or a tablet. It’ll allow you to fly, pause, read, fly and so on. This includes the brevity manual. Save yourself down the road by learning the lingo. You don’t need to know all of it, mainly the air stuff. Don’t try to rush through the books, you’ll miss things which will likely compound your frustrations. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
I’ll add more later after the kiddo gets up and going and I’ve had my coffee. But keep with it. Nice and easy. One thing at a time
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There are so many documents and they all have hundreds of pages, I don’t know where to start. I could just go from top to bottom, whichever order its sorted out in the folders, but i wont be done till 3 decades from now. I need something to aim for
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You could follow the advice given by the guy that wrote quite a lot of them. He gave his suggestion in post #25 in this thread.
If you’ve got past the Setup and Configuration phase (for which the BMS-Manual is your friend) then go step by step through the BMS-Training manual. That should hold your hand while you get started. You might need to refer to the -1 or maybe even the -34 from time to time if you want a bit more detail on something in the BMS-Training manual but you’ll have started to get the hang of things by then.
There is by design a lot of duplication in the different manuals, so the volume of information you will find is not quite as daunting as you might think.
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@Chu:
There are so many documents and they all have hundreds of pages, I don’t know where to start. I could just go from top to bottom, whichever order its sorted out in the folders, but i wont be done till 3 decades from now. I need something to aim for
Start small and slow. Learn simply what panel is what. Then give a ramp start a try! You got this.
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Ok so
Setting up controls and the like- BMS Manual
Then to focus on the Training Manual with some looks at -1 and -34
Alrighty, i’ll be back when im out of the lab or still unsure about what Hotas i should get since i’ve never not been picky/unsure about hardware, go figure.
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I started with Falcon BMS a little more than a year ago and found the tutorials and the requirement to read theoretical manual overwhelming. I then proceeded to watch YouTube videos and in just a week I was already flying campaign missions and completing them successfully. And then I’ve read the manual and tutorials to learn about small things videos omitted.
That has more to do with your learning style than the manuals. Flying campaign missions is fine, but there is a difference between doing something vs. understanding WHY you’re doing it this way and not that way.
The fact that the tutorial doc starts with a ramp start where you have to deal with a lot of abbreviations and instruments that you have to read about in a separate manual to understand what you are doing - and that you can’t just skip it (unlike the ramp start in the game itself) and then proceed with following lessons simply because they act like you’ve already learned much - is what makes it counter-intuitive and anti-newbie.
You do know you can skip TE01 and go to TE02, right? Heck, you can even skip TE01-TE03 and go right onto the TEs you want! This makes me think you’ve not really looked into the training manual and the TEs. Not looking into the relevant training and documentation is what is counter-intuitive and anti-newbie.
A good tutorial would start small - since you don’t need to learn much to get a plane into the air, follow waypoints and then land it. It’s very basic and quite easy to do, see. Then it would teach you how to fire weapons in the most common and simplest ways (e.g. default dogfight mode versus requiring you to understand what a vertical radar mode does in it and why it is good in one case and bad in the other). And only then proceed with stuff that would require practice, experience and understanding of F16 systems.
Again, this seems to reinforce the idea that you’ve not really given this a good look. The first TE is a startup TE. How much smaller do you need to take it? TE02 is navigation. TE03 is landing. They’re all very basic and quite easy to do, see? Asking to be taught to fire weapons when you can’t even handle the supposed abbreviations in the startup TE is like ignoring the glass of water and insisting on drinking from the firehose…… then complaining about how difficult it is to do a very simple thing. You have to learn how to walk before you run… and ideally, you have to learn how to start up a jet before you can fly it.
Which coincidentally is how Krause’s (and other guys’) videos do it and why they succeed because of how easy they are to wrap your head around, gradually introducing you to complex stuff.
I still fail to see how you found the 4.33 training manual and TEs to be complicated.
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@Chu:
i’m barely into it and i had to look up like a million abbreviations, holy crap
I’d love for you to list the first 15 you’ve come across, page number they first appeared in, and why you’ve had to look up abbreviations…
If you are legit in your complaints, do know that learning the actual word that has been abbreviated is a bonus, but not required for the most part. Knowing that TMS is Target Management Switch and CMS is Countermeasures Management Switch and DMS is Display Management Switch is nice…. but that is extra info you won’t really need for the most part. Everyone calls them TMS/CMS/DMS and I would say the more important bit is that you know where they are and what they do.
If you’re just looking to make complaints, then BMS may not be for you……
@Chu:
There are so many documents and they all have hundreds of pages, I don’t know where to start. I could just go from top to bottom, whichever order its sorted out in the folders, but i wont be done till 3 decades from now. I need something to aim for
There are 4 documents you need to worry about…. and one of them is named BMS-Training.pdf…. does that not give you a clue that you may want to start there?
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Which coincidentally is how Krause’s (and other guys’) videos do it and why they succeed because of how easy they are to wrap your head around, gradually introducing you to complex stuff.
If, that’s IF, you are prepared to accept that many of these videos contain errors and, in some circles, are not always considered the right/best way to do things…
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Here’s some serious advice…. SLOW DOWN.
This isn’t Ace Combat where you’ll be shooting down things within the first hour of starting the game. There is a reason that this sim, initially released in 1998, is still alive and well. There is a reason that people who have been playing this sim for YEARS are still discovering something new. So SLOW DOWN and enjoy learning the sim. It might take you 2 days before you start shooting down stuff… or it may take you 2 weeks… or it may take you 2 months. Who cares? The important thing is that you LEARN how it works, why it works, and why the other options are not really ideal. Going into dogfight mode is easy, locking onto a target is easy, firing an AIM-120C at the target when it gets into WEZ (weapon engagement zone) is easy, watching the fireball that ensues is easy. Knowing that you need to go into dogfight mode is hard… is the target hostile? Is it going for you? Is it really a threat? Locking onto a correct target is hard… what if it’s a 4-ship and you want to take out #2? How do you refine your radar view? What if there are other friendlies in the area, how do you know your bugged target is red or blue? Knowing when to fire an AIM-120C is hard… knowing what to do before and after firing an AIM-120C is hard… do you fire at max range? Do you loft? Do you want to fire at RTR? Do you notch? What do you do if there’s a missile coming towards you as well?
There is a lot of info to cover under just one topic, so SLOW DOWN.
@Chu:
The Sticks/HOTAS setups which are most accessible to me would be that Extreme 3D Pro, Thrustmaster T Flight Hotas X, and the warthog. As much as i’d love to get the warthog, since just looking at it gets me excited, its not really affordable at the moment XD. So it’d have to be between the first two, which i can get as soon as this week. I could also go for the Thrustmaster T-16000M FCS HOTAS or flight pack, but both of which are somewhat overpriced here/
How serious are you at this? If you know you’ll be at it for a long while, it’ll help justify the cost…. also know that you can flog your gear if you decide it’s not for you. You’ll lose money, sure, but it won’t be as painful. I would say that the T1600M would be a great HOTAS for starting out. HALL sensors alone means your HOTAS is more accurate and would need less maintenance compared to the Logi 3D Pro which IIRC still uses old-style pots.
@Chu:
So what specific order should i read the documents, so i don’t get confused beyond repair.
Simply put, there is no order. You do not finish one book and move onto the other. This is not a novel series. Do start out with the Training document, but expect to be jumping between the Dash-1 (TO-BMS1F-16CM-1.pdf), the Dash-34 (TO-BMS1F-16CM-34-1-1.pdf), the manual, and the training document.
Also note that you do not have to read it all…. you will, eventually, but this is not a requirement for now. Go read the relevant sections from the relevant document as you need them.
A small bit of unsolicited advice: tone down the exaggerations and the attitude. Most things in BMS are done for a reason… some people might think differently, some people may not agree with the reasons, but it is what it is. Your statement about abbreviations makes it look like BMS may be too much for you… complaining about self-study and FML and “thanks anyway” makes it look like BMS may not be your type of sim…. saying you won’t be done until 3 decades or “go figure” makes it look like you don’t have the correct mindset for BMS.
You may not have put your best foot forward and that’s okay, but moving forward, it would be easier for you and for everyone if we got on with more learning and less drama. You read the manuals yourself, yes, but the forum is here to deal with your questions and the questions of everyone else playing BMS… newbies and oldies alike. That is hardly self-study.
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If, that’s IF, you are prepared to accept that many of these videos contain errors and, in some circles, are not always considered the right/best way to do things…
The thing is… learning a complex sim and building your foundation upon errors and shortcuts isn’t really the best way to do this.
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Here’s some serious advice…. SLOW DOWN.
This isn’t Ace Combat where you’ll be shooting down things within the first hour of starting the game. There is a reason that this sim, initially released in 1998, is still alive and well. There is a reason that people who have been playing this sim for YEARS are still discovering something new. So SLOW DOWN and enjoy learning the sim. It might take you 2 days before you start shooting down stuff… or it may take you 2 weeks… or it may take you 2 months. Who cares? The important thing is that you LEARN how it works, why it works, and why the other options are not really ideal. Going into dogfight mode is easy, locking onto a target is easy, firing an AIM-120C at the target when it gets into WEZ (weapon engagement zone) is easy, watching the fireball that ensues is easy. Knowing that you need to go into dogfight mode is hard… is the target hostile? Is it going for you? Is it really a threat? Locking onto a correct target is hard… what if it’s a 4-ship and you want to take out #2? How do you refine your radar view? What if there are other friendlies in the area, how do you know your bugged target is red or blue? Knowing when to fire an AIM-120C is hard… knowing what to do before and after firing an AIM-120C is hard… do you fire at max range? Do you loft? Do you want to fire at RTR? Do you notch? What do you do if there’s a missile coming towards you as well?
There is a lot of info to cover under just one topic, so SLOW DOWN.
How serious are you at this? If you know you’ll be at it for a long while, it’ll help justify the cost…. also know that you can flog your gear if you decide it’s not for you. You’ll lose money, sure, but it won’t be as painful. I would say that the T1600M would be a great HOTAS for starting out. HALL sensors alone means your HOTAS is more accurate and would need less maintenance compared to the Logi 3D Pro which IIRC still uses old-style pots.
Simply put, there is no order. You do not finish one book and move onto the other. This is not a novel series. Do start out with the Training document, but expect to be jumping between the Dash-1 (TO-BMS1F-16CM-1.pdf), the Dash-34 (TO-BMS1F-16CM-34-1-1.pdf), the manual, and the training document.
Also note that you do not have to read it all…. you will, eventually, but this is not a requirement for now. Go read the relevant sections from the relevant document as you need them.
A small bit of unsolicited advice: tone down the exaggerations and the attitude. Most things in BMS are done for a reason… some people might think differently, some people may not agree with the reasons, but it is what it is. Your statement about abbreviations makes it look like BMS may be too much for you… complaining about self-study and FML and “thanks anyway” makes it look like BMS may not be your type of sim…. saying you won’t be done until 3 decades or “go figure” makes it look like you don’t have the correct mindset for BMS.
You may not have put your best foot forward and that’s okay, but moving forward, it would be easier for you and for everyone if we got on with more learning and less drama. You read the manuals yourself, yes, but the forum is here to deal with your questions and the questions of everyone else playing BMS… newbies and oldies alike. That is hardly self-study.
While I barely have the slightest bit of knowledge that this level of a simulator would require, I am pretty serious about wanting to get into it. I’ve always liked Aircrafts, with the F-15 and F-16 being my favorites since I was 5 or so. And I’ve always looked for such a detailed, realistic sim. Very overwhelming to say the least. And yeah, it’s definitely no Ace Combat lol, would take 2 minutes to get into that. While I do hate complicated things, that conflicts with me wanting to get into something such as BMS. Quite the internal struggle really, I’m gunning for it though
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(reminds me TagKnight!)
Chu, rather than writing posts and reading others’s post you’ve read the -1 you would have almost finished it.
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Chu…GOTS…
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@Chu:
While I barely have the slightest bit of knowledge that this level of a simulator would require, I am pretty serious about wanting to get into it. I’ve always liked Aircrafts, with the F-15 and F-16 being my favorites since I was 5 or so. And I’ve always looked for such a detailed, realistic sim. Very overwhelming to say the least. And yeah, it’s definitely no Ace Combat lol, would take 2 minutes to get into that. While I do hate complicated things, that conflicts with me wanting to get into something such as BMS. Quite the internal struggle really, I’m gunning for it though
Glad to hear that!
You mentioned you wanted something to aim for…. go and do TE01. Read the training manual, follow it, and do TE01 until you can startup the aircraft with a good degree of reliability. “But -Ice, why do I have to do that if I can just do a TAXI or a RUNWAY start on missions and campaigns?” Glad you asked. Your cockpit is your office and you should be familiar with where things are and what certain buttons and switches do. Nothing does this like doing a startup procedure. Some virtual squadrons also have this as one of their entry requirements and most big groups have you starting in a cold jet, so unless you really, really, REALLY only want to play with AI, learning the startup now is a great way to get started.
I would also like to give you a bit of context with regards to the more expensive simming equipment. I’ve had my TM Warthog since Dec 2010. At around £300, it’s one of the more expensive items for simming and can make for a very cool but very expensive paperweight. However, my WH has been outside the box for 99.999999999% of its time with me because I have it bolted onto my simpit, and has been very reliable outside of a few hiccups at the start (under warranty). This means that this expensive HOTAS actually costs me £42.86 per year or £3.57 per month. So while £300 may be expensive if you’re not sure about BMS, it’s actually quite cheap if you’re serious about flight simming
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Why not make an in depth Tutorial for the simulator ?
The fun is in the learning, that’s the fun part.
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Why not make an in depth Tutorial for the simulator ?
I think creating an actual tutorial system would be quite a bit of work that, if it is on the dev list, would be right near the bottom. The training TEs are very good though. You just have to work your way through them with the manuals. Then when you are having difficulty with something you can look up tutorial videos and ask questions here. No one here is opposed to answering questions but on the same token no one really wants to bother answering the same questions over and over again when the OP obviously hasn’t taken the time to try to teach them self or even bothered to open the manual.
Aside from the current training TEs anyone can create their own. If you don’t like the ones available or they are now to easy, create one with the scenario you want to train in.
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Just realized that in two more years, I’ll be going into my fourth decade with Falcon.
Still learning and still loving it.
WOW. -
Just realized that in two more years, I’ll be going into my fourth decade with Falcon.
Still learning and still loving it.
WOW.Well that’s quite a few years longer than I’ve even existed.
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Just realized that in two more years, I’ll be going into my fourth decade with Falcon.
Still learning and still loving it.
WOW.Right there with you Badger - I go back to the very first versions.