4.34 - IDM principles of operation
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It has been reported that the changes to IDM in 4.34 have been confusing a few users.
Here is an article that should hopefully shed some light to it.
Happy reading
Note : this is a bit fresh out of the press, feedback/questions welcome.[The pilotās guide to IFF.pdf](Invalid file type. Allowed types are: .png, .jpg, .bmp, .gif, .webp, .jpeg)
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That is awesome! We literally landed 5 minutes ago, from the first 10 flight mission in 4.34. Letās just say that we are very interested in this document!
BTW: 4.34 is greatā¦ The clouds are great. Opposition has stepped up. Awesome AWACS calls. And IFF is so nice for building SA. -
CONT mode will work wonderfully for a package with 8 ships. 8 data link slots.
but,
One flight lead hosting CONT for 3-5 flights (more than 8 ships) is no longer ideal.
Say you have a 20 ship package, and everyone puts their flight members in spots 1-4 and other flight leads in spots 5-8.
Since only the 8 ships in the āhostāsā Datalink page get updated, other flight leads will never see their own wingmen, and the wingmen in the other flights will only see their lead, and other leads.When we have a big 20 ship human package, weāre going to try using DMD only
Ć la Dan HamptonThat way, any lead (or wingman) could initiate a request for his entire flight and other flight leads
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obviously now the entire dynamic changesā¦.
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I noticed AI flight lead will do CONT but I didnāt know that it will include all flight leads in package too. Good info!
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in the same package, now we have to get the same IDM table!
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Lorik also has an interesting concept for how to sort a 20 ship package:
-package lead hosts his flight and other leads in CONT UHF
-one flight member in each of the other flights hosts a VHF CONT round
-the lead for each of the other flights toggles back and forth between VHF/UHF in his Intraflight DL DED page LIST-ENTER-SEQ-(any ICP number) to either join his flight memberās CONT round (see his own flight members) or the package leadās CONT round (see other flight leads) -
Gasmanās SOP up there using DMD will be interesting for a test. I guess theyāll give us feedback on it soon.
And kudos on the accent: āĆ ā laā¦
To illustrate previous post:
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Hey Iām an F-16 Crew Chief in real life and I noticed that in 4.34 (and in the .pdf OP created) the Link-16 only extrapolates for 8 seconds between data link responses. This felt wrong, as your flight members will drop of data link for a few seconds between updates, so I went and looked it up in the real -34 and sure enough the extrapolation period is 13 seconds in real life, long enough for friendly members of your flight to stay on your HSI forever. I canāt post the whole manual in its entirety, but hereās the relevant section:
From the -34:
āBetween receipt of air PPLI updates, PPLI symbol positions are extrapolated and
updated for a maximum of 13 seconds to minimize excessive jumps in displaying the track position between receipt of the Link
16 update messages. Air PPLI tracks are purged, if an update has not been received for 13 seconds.ā -
BMS does IDM and TDL (Link 11A B or 4) though. Link 16 is separate and runs over dedicated MIDS radios.
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Iāll consider it a trade-off for the IFF. :thumb:
I see it as something weāll get used to as we use it and we now have a document explaining the nuances.
Iām actually enjoying learning all the new quirks.
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Hey Iām an F-16 Crew Chief in real life and I noticed that in 4.34 (and in the .pdf OP created) the Link-16 only extrapolates for 8 seconds between data link responses. This felt wrong, as your flight members will drop of data link for a few seconds between updates, so I went and looked it up in the real -34 and sure enough the extrapolation period is 13 seconds in real life, long enough for friendly members of your flight to stay on your HSI forever. I canāt post the whole manual in its entirety, but hereās the relevant section:
From the -34:
āBetween receipt of air PPLI updates, PPLI symbol positions are extrapolated and
updated for a maximum of 13 seconds to minimize excessive jumps in displaying the track position between receipt of the Link
16 update messages. Air PPLI tracks are purged, if an update has not been received for 13 seconds.āWe dont simulate Link 16 in 4.34. The IDM Intraflight datalink extrapolating period is different and is indeed 8s
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U donāt need other wingmans. Having the leads is just enough. If u loose a leader u switch to element leader or 3.
U just need the general position of a flight lets say in a comao. If things get furbal u can switch to the close flight members or visual cause in a furbal id`s will not help much.
Mostly its like the i want to see them all.
If its training and u want to see formations ok put whatever.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T818A using Tapatalk
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This is a big deal, thanks for the heads up!
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Lorik also has an interesting concept for how to sort a 20 ship package:
-package lead hosts his flight and other leads in CONT UHF
-one flight member in each of the other flights hosts a VHF CONT round
-the lead for each of the other flights toggles back and forth between VHF/UHF in his Intraflight DL DED page LIST-ENTER-SEQ-(any ICP number) to either join his flight memberās CONT round (see his own flight members) or the package leadās CONT round (see other flight leads)Drawbacks being, the lead disappears from the package DL whenever he checks wingman datalink, or if he wants to share AG datalink with his flight.
I am keen to hear some feedback from people who know how the system works IRL - a reading of the manual lent me the impression that RL, having different teams on the same frequency was a good way to screw up everyoneās symbology.
1.5.2.7.9.2 For proper intraflight communication, all members of the 8-ship team must have the same set of team addresses and no two team members can have the same address. The team table is the method used to coordinate the transmission
sequences of the team member IDMās during an A-A intraflight round. If the team address tables are not similar among team members, mismatch of team members and their IDās/addresses will occur. Team table mismatch results in incorrect display of
intraflight data link symbology on the MFD.1.5.2.10.1 Operational usage of these modes require prior coordination to ensure correct data link communication. Each member must be using the same radio (UHF or VHF), on the same frequency, with the same IDM data rate, and team table setup. This coordination may be done during preflight with mission planning data or while enroute using voice radio. If there is more than one 4-ship team, radio frequency isolation between teams is required for proper intraflight IDM operation.
As the helpful document linked points out, its a radio. Two people XMIT at the same time, neither gets through properly. If aircraft have different tables, you will get two or more aircraft trying to reply at the same time to the round.
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U donāt need other wingmans. Having the leads is just enough. If u loose a leader u switch to element leader or 3.
U just need the general position of a flight lets say in a comao. If things get furbal u can switch to the close flight members or visual cause in a furbal id`s will not help much.
Mostly its like the i want to see them all.
If its training and u want to see formations ok put whatever.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T818A using Tapatalk
And what about the leads? Using CONT in a 20 ship package there will be 4 leads that canāt see any of their wingmenā¦ Doesnt work.
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Well u need hsi to see them?
U hear them u see them with your eyes. Your 3 can have them and report to you.
Also use AA tacan for your 3 to have distance from him if you want something visual.
Your tasked mission is to destroy something or prevent something, not viewing where your wingman is on the hsi or fcr. This is prerequisite and part of your training.
U will ask what about AI? Well humans do it better, and in campaigns i dont think there are comao missions. So your problem solved.
This builds a good SA i believe and you donāt rely on the gizmos for everything.
They have rules and they follow it.
Donāt have the idea that real pilots on missions have a Godās eye for everything.
So they must use what they have to maintain SA and be effective.
They even train with no voice comms and use airframe or hands and head for signaling.Excuse me the humor here:
Pfff youngsters want it all like video gameā¦ [emoji38]
Real men do it the hard way, and are effective.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T818A using Tapatalk
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Real pilots on missions do have that artyā¦ Thatās what the MIDS LVT provides.
But itās not necessary, I agree. You donāt need datalink to find your wingman, or flight lead - some folks could stand to use a formation refresher, perhaps.
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Well u need hsi to see them?
U hear them u see them with your eyes. Your 3 can have them and report to you.
Also use AA tacan for your 3 to have distance from him if you want something visual.
Your tasked mission is to destroy something or prevent something, not viewing where your wingman is on the hsi or fcr. This is prerequisite and part of your training.
U will ask what about AI? Well humans do it better, and in campaigns i dont think there are comao missions. So your problem solved.
This builds a good SA i believe and you donāt rely on the gizmos for everything.
They have rules and they follow it.
Donāt have the idea that real pilots on missions have a Godās eye for everything.
So they must use what they have to maintain SA and be effective.
They even train with no voice comms and use airframe or hands and head for signaling.Excuse me the humor here:
Pfff youngsters want it all like video gameā¦ [emoji38]
Real men do it the hard way, and are effective.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T818A using Tapatalk
youāre right, what am I sayingā¦ Rip all that junk out and give me the 80ās theater already!!!
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Why use a car when you can roam around in a horse cart, it has wheels and gets you to places too? Or use radar when you have two perfectly good mk.I EM receivers on your face? DL is not a substitute for comms and thereās nobody telling you you need to use it arty, be a man and paint all that SA in your head without sensors, nothing can go wrong