SA-10 shoots down all my ARMs
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While it’s great to see SAMs like the SA-10 can shoot down cruise missiles and HARMs, I’m now at a total loss as to how to perform a SEAD or DEAD against SA-10 in a Campaign. I order my wingmen to launch mulitple HARMs with me at the same time to try an overwhelm the site with no luck… every missile was shot down. Anyone have any tips/tricks besides flying < 50ft and then poping up? Area protected by SA-17 as well. Searched the forum for similar posts and looked in the manuals with no luck.
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IRL probably about two dozen JASSM-ER launched from B-1s, coordinated with navy Tomahawks, all simultaneous time-on-target, approach from multiple azimuths…
Edit: apparently the Falcon can carry a couple AGM-158? … I didn’t realize.
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I should have mentioned flying low with terrain masking, it worked with Chinese SA-10 sites just a few missions ago. Maybe it’s a fluke. What adds more insult to injury is AI flights in the campaign screen can fly right through the same SAM sites with minimum loses, which means the rules might not be the same in the campaign world and the game world. If I jump in one of the flights, every plane will be shot down so fast
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Think of 2d as an RTS, with dice rolling and all kinds of probability at work. De aggregated 3D is Mano y Mano…
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Going after 10s these days require a good package frag coming at different directions. It’s hard in SP, AI don’t know how to cat and mouse.
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I’m curious about this as well, I havent gone after 10s yet. what about Growler (EA-18G) support?
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I’m curious about this as well, I havent gone after 10s yet. what about Growler (EA-18G) support?
So flying nap of the earth <100 ft using terrain as cover and engaging an SA-10 site at 7 miles out with Mavs is the only way I can get consistent results = destroy the flap lid
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So flying nap of the earth <100 ft using terrain as cover and engaging an SA-10 site at 7 miles out with Mavs is the only way I can get consistent results = destroy the flap lid
Sounds like super fun gameplay but omg the manpad risk for you and your $30M jet…
and is it a bug that they can shoot down incoming harms at mach3 but can’t defend a mav at mach 0.5? I don’t know much about these anti-missile defense system irl. or is it that the noe giving you the element of surprise -
Here’s two flights attacking an SA-10:
SEAD flight just outside the SAM WEZ providing constant HARM coverage, while DEAD flight goes NOE to destroy the radar and the launchers with Mavericks.
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I’m curious about this as well, I havent gone after 10s yet. what about Growler (EA-18G) support?
I would think adding a Growler package to the mission if available (with its own Escort) at 32k’ would suppress the SA10 long enough to get some ordinance on it (like an AGM-154 JSOW from 25 miles or so), that would work, no?
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We used a Growler with great success in 4.34.4. (Don’t know if anything changed here).
The SA-10 (or other radar-guided SAM) within the Growlers range would spike you, but it wouldn’t fire.
IIRC the Growler needs two jamming waypoints with patrol duration. Once it finishes the station time and goes past the second jamming steerpoint it is finished and cannot start jamming again.
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While it’s great to see SAMs like the SA-10 can shoot down cruise missiles and HARMs, I’m now at a total loss as to how to perform a SEAD or DEAD against SA-10 in a Campaign. I order my wingmen to launch mulitple HARMs with me at the same time to try an overwhelm the site with no luck… every missile was shot down. Anyone have any tips/tricks besides flying < 50ft and then poping up? Area protected by SA-17 as well. Searched the forum for similar posts and looked in the manuals with no luck.
Attack from two different directions at least with 100 degrees difference because the launch arc of the SA-10 is restricted.
But even this requires precise timing, low level flying and BOTH flights have to use AGM-88. Because the SA-10 drops the directions where do not came ARM. -
We used a Growler with great success in 4.34.4. (Don’t know if anything changed here).
The SA-10 (or other radar-guided SAM) within the Growlers range would spike you, but it wouldn’t fire.
IIRC the Growler needs two jamming waypoints with patrol duration. Once it finishes the station time and goes past the second jamming steerpoint it is finished and cannot start jamming again.
Wow what is this black magic? Neato.
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We used a Growler with great success in 4.34.4. (Don’t know if anything changed here).
The SA-10 (or other radar-guided SAM) within the Growlers range would spike you, but it wouldn’t fire.
IIRC the Growler needs two jamming waypoints with patrol duration. Once it finishes the station time and goes past the second jamming steerpoint it is finished and cannot start jamming again.Yes, Lorik lays the process out in his excellent YT video, not sure of 4.35 as i’m not using it currently… It’s set as a patrol duration between two SPs as Active jamming and on the way in/out to safety its jamming for itself…
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I do not have any idea how to take down an SA-10 site flying single player missions, but in MP missions I have had nothing but complete success against the 10 with those I fly with. Here is how we do it without the aid of a Growler or Jammer package. We have done this with a 4 ship flight many times and once with a 3 ship flight. The attack must be well coordinated with all aircraft trespassing the 10 threat radius as close to the same time as possible at 25k and have all aircraft fire both HARMs immediately after trespassing, extending no more than 3 miles in to the threat radius, maybe a little more, before making a rapid egress from the threat radius. We use POS, EOM mode to target our HARMS. In order to shoot down the incoming HARMs the Flap Lid must stay lit up, so there is no need to weasel the 10 to make him stay active. As a group we have now done this almost 10 times, every time successful, without a loss of any aircraft. I’m starting to call this the “HARM Lottery” as we never know who’s missile will strike the Flap Lid. About half of the time both the Flap lid and the Big Bird get destroyed, but every time the Flap Lid has been destroyed. Usually 10 to 12 SA-10s get launched, seems about half or more are fired at the incoming HARMS. The key I believe is giving them 12 targets to track at once, 8 HARMS, 4 aircraft, overwhelming the system. Battalion will show supply status as “Critical” after the attack.
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I do not have any idea how to take down an SA-10 site flying single player missions, but in MP missions I have had nothing but complete success against the 10 with those I fly with. Here is how we do it without the aid of a Growler or Jammer package. We have done this with a 4 ship flight many times and once with a 3 ship flight. The attack must be well coordinated with all aircraft trespassing the 10 threat radius as close to the same time as possible at 25k and have all aircraft fire both HARMs immediately after trespassing, extending no more than 3 miles in to the threat radius, maybe a little more, before making a rapid egress from the threat radius. We use POS, EOM mode to target our HARMS. In order to shoot down the incoming HARMs the Flap Lid must stay lit up, so there is no need to weasel the 10 to make him stay active. As a group we have now done this almost 10 times, every time successful, without a loss of any aircraft. I’m starting to call this the “HARM Lottery” as we never know who’s missile will strike the Flap Lid. About half of the time both the Flap lid and the Big Bird get destroyed, but every time the Flap Lid has been destroyed. Usually 10 to 12 SA-10s get launched, seems about half or more are fired at the incoming HARMS. The key I believe is giving them 12 targets to track at once, 8 HARMS, 4 aircraft, overwhelming the system. Battalion will show supply status as “Critical” after the attack.
Cool! These things give me nightmares. Love to hear that other folks are making them suffer.
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Sounds like super fun gameplay but omg the manpad risk for you and your $30M jet…
and is it a bug that they can shoot down incoming harms at mach3 but can’t defend a mav at mach 0.5? I don’t know much about these anti-missile defense system irl. or is it that the noe giving you the element of surpriseI figured it out: NOE with HARMs, fly into the engagement circle until 20 miles out, then pop up, get lit, fire the HARM(s), duck down, repeat pop up a few times until your HARM(s) hit. Mavs are fun but I get killed by the 10s more times than I kill them. Watching a 10 launching straight up and then towards me in slow motion is often the last thing I see. With HARMs, I don’t need to get that close.
For Stinger-like MANPADs, I now fly with FCS on my left MFD to get around any battalions with AA.
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I figured it out: NOE with HARMs, fly into the engagement circle until 20 miles out, then pop up, get lit, fire the HARM(s), duck down, repeat pop up a few times until your HARM(s) hit. Mavs are fun but I get killed by the 10s more times than I kill them. Watching a 10 launching straight up and then towards me in slow motion is often the last thing I see. With HARMs, I don’t need to get that close.
That sounds right to me … 20 mile radius would be hard for them to cover densely with manpads. I remember hearing RUK mode can be good for the kind of shots where you have a good bearing to the target but don’t have a precise steerpoint on it. Haven’t tried in 4.35 … and have never tried it against SA-10
FCS … do you mean FCR? That also sounds smart. Time to fire up the HARM training TE…
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The SA-10 at Luihe is super easy to get, because there’s a mountain right in front of it. If you pop up over that mountain, the SA-10 probably won’t have enough time (and possibly space) to kill you and your HARM.
The SA-10s around Shenyang? If they don’t shoot down your HARMs, it’s fine, just pop up rougly 20s before impact. Other than that, it’s not going to be easy. The terrain is pretty flat and there are many of them.