PinkyandBrains Beginners guide
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Thanx Wavey Dave…
hmmm this adds new parameters to the procedure.
Needs more testing.
this could be even easier then I thought…
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How about Offset UVs? Does it work?
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If you mean placing the UV coordinates outside of the 0-1 range then yes.
It is also possible to enlarge the UV mapped area much larger than the texture to make the texture repeat.
Regards
Dave -
Man u r killing me here…
Very very much thank u for the info I love u… but if I had that info from the very beginning I believe I would be in full production by now.
Sure not your fault… please don’t misunderstand my writing… I couldn’t ask the correct question as I didn’t knew… after what? one year+ let’s hope the solution is found.
Now I have to just use square dds specs textures as my materials library and test it…
This means everything is ready and just needs the conversion of the files to dds and assign them in 3ds and then export…
Looks way easy to be true…
damn I must finish quickly those RT textures…
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No worries.
I couldn’t ask the correct question as I didn’t knew
Often the case.
PS. I don’t read all threads on the forum so if you bury a question in a thread regarding the exporter or modelling in general I will usually miss it.
Regards
Dave -
Yes Master.
I got it already, one of the reasons I post here.
Q: How can I suck your brain Falcon - 3ds MAX wise? :lol:
Surely I believe if u spent time on creating tutorials more things would be done in Falcon. And I don’t speak general 3ds but how to extensively suck the potential of the exporter.
I’m sure that only a few new about the UV offset.
Also found this that might be helpful: http://www.shawnolson.net/a/1819/material_merger.html
Real Q now: I read somewhere about texture ATLAS can this also be used? do u know anything about it? http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/texture-atlas-generator
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I’m Solidworks user, and is there any method to involve modeling of BMS object??
I want to find LOD file generating method by using other 3d modeling tools especially using Solidworks
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I’m Solidworks user, and is there any method to involve modeling of BMS object??
I want to find LOD file generating method by using other 3d modeling tools especially using Solidworks
I am not aware of any plugins for Solidworks that produce models in Falcons LOD format.
You could build the model in Solidworks or any other modelling program then import it into 3DS Max to complete the process.
The only other option is to save your model as a .3ds file and use LODEditor to import it. This if fine for features (e.g. buildings) as they don’t have any animation but almost everything else does. You can do the animation in LODEditor but it isn’t easy.
Regards
Dave -
Just a heads up…
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/
this site has a vast library of blueprints and vectors though u have to pay for vectors… but blue prints are free and ok and if they are clean or cleaned, with Corel Draw u can convert them to vector in a snap and then save it as dwg (AutoCAD) and then Import it in 3ds… way better for 3ds designers then a plane with a photo of a blueprint in it.
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Hmm teraforming :
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This is more realistic thing:
https://sites.google.com/site/raxterbaxter/projects/current-projects/streaming-osm-terrain-unity-packageOr this:
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WOW… repvez this is great and way fast… then u just export to 3ds and you r done or there is a trick?
Also do you hapen to know if with this u can create square tiles to use them in Falcon terrain? does it split the images in square? as I see it creates an assets folder and puts them there. Have u used it?
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Unfortunately, I can’t use it. I just found it on the internet , because i would like make a realistic environment for my 3d model.
But It would be good if someone can use it for Falcon terrain and the height map too.
I think it is tileable .You should try out it. If it works when It would be done under couple day the whole theatre.
if It can be useful, the BMS should be the most realistic flight sim ever
http://soulssaga.deviantart.com/journal/TERRAIN-COMPOSER-WORLD-COMPOSER-UNITY-EXTENSIONS-396485262 -
So let’s move the materials subject here…
The thing came up from Drawcalls from the DX engine falcon uses and how they have an impact on FPS.
tris in 3ds r not so important as we thought:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?22653-WIP-Leopard-2-A5&p=328093&viewfull=1#post328093
@WaveyDave:This might not be as efficient as you think. Compare vertex counts between what you have and if the wheel was one object. Vertices are the things the engine has to transform in order to get your model from object space into world space.
Plus anything that breaks the rendering batch is bad i.e. ptype changes, shading groups, texture change.
Any break in rendering batch mean another draw call, with each draw call you get 300 tris for free effectively. So low level lods less than 300 are probably pointless but they must be all one batch.
Regards
DaveNot sure how tris count is calculated in 3D Max but I believe WD knows what he is talking about… e.g a simple cube has 8 vertices, but 12 tris… vertices is indeed what’s being translated, rotated and transformed by DirectX, tris are usually what’s being drawn by draw calls.
Yes, DirectX is a state machine, so you set states for e.g texturing, blending, materila (Ptype) and you draw all you can by a single draw call (of course assuming you pushed everything you need in a smart way to a common vertex and index buffers, because buffers are also set for a draw call…), then if say you need to replace texture then you must update the current texture DirectX will use and execute another draw call, same if you need to update material, you need to update the DirectX state with the material properties and execute another draw call, etc etc… so for example you better have an Aircraft with 1x2048 texture than 4x1024 or 16x512 to cover the same area, much more efficient.
As I-Hawk explained it has to do with the draw calls so it’s not possible to say from your description because you haven’t specified things like texture usage/mapping and smoothing. If the 144 tri object was one smooth group and didn’t break texture mapping then yes it would probably be more efficient because it could be drawn in one draw call. You can see why giving a simple tri count as the limit is easier for most to deal with.
It would be nice if we have a model viewer that told us how many draw calls a model needed. That was something that DXEdit from FF did which was useful.
I’ve seen some people use untextured polys in models thinking they were being more efficient but as soon as the pType changes it’s another draw call.
Use the node summary in the export to see what pTypes are being generated for the LOD, it can help you ensure that a few incorrect pTypes are getting through adding extra draw calls.
Regards
DaveThen comes Demer928 and puts the materials in the subject:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?22653-WIP-Leopard-2-A5&p=328264&viewfull=1#post328264
@demer928:Keep it at two calls……ptype2 and ptype14…you will be amazed soon…LOL!!!
The Illuminati…LOL!!!
Also using larger and less textures also is better.
back to materials by Demer:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?22653-WIP-Leopard-2-A5&p=328403&viewfull=1#post328403
@demer928:Nice work again Arek……!!!
To Artys point…I took some time today to show us\redo some tests as to my already proved to me “Proof of Concept”……;)
First pic is CCC’s FFG Perry @ 126 Tris and textured\DOF’d along with my conversion of Army Souls FFG Boone @ 29,000 Tris……but no texture’s and only Material mapping.
Second pic is CCC’s model alone. Though still in the taskforce (other models within the booble affect each other……;) )
Third pic is my conversion of Army Souls FFG Boone alone but still in the Task force. I have only Textured with “Materials” the gun and Helo Pad @ this time.As we can see, there is a significant FPS gain using this technique.
Also, as stated to Radium, I only use this technique for Low Priority models ATM… I cannot imagine the Falcon time it would take to do a complex model this way……LOL!!! BUT, I guess you could if you wanted to (I see divorce court coming……LOL!!!)
I am using this technique in upcoming GUAM for Das Boots because the Capital ships are HUGH (Features) on the moving objective. I need to save the FPS budget where I can……sighAs well, using only 2 pTypes allows me to target only those Polys that I want to illuminate at night…instead of ADDING carrier lights.blk et al (just more Tris to the Model)
Cheers,
The Illuminatithen me messing everything as always:
@Arty:Well In my tests doesn’t look very nice… a lot of monotony, have to work on it.
Trying to create a procedural rule that maybe will make it look plural and not repetitive, also alongside trying the materials thus with texture but not having to uv map the thing.
Using texture materials is the problem thing, cause the procedural tool doesn’t use dds format where the 3ds must declare a dds, thus using a color for material and not a texture looks more easy when u have to build some xxx.xxx models. Sure I can create a set of files (a library) and work with them but square textures fubar buildings creation… they need - work better with parallel ones… facades.For starters I might go with colors and variation mostly playing at the gray area… but that way all buildings will be like fresh painted.
Right now I’m searching how to easily set the windows and their illumination at night so the city will look alive at night and not have to do all by hand… like setting a rule of 30% -40% of windows to be illuminated and the rest to be dark… this will make a good night city landscape for sure.
hmmm after that with the night street from lamps lighting there could be a combination of just points and there put the lighted areas and boom u have lighted buildings and lighted streets… hmmm
Damn I only have one week of vacations and I’m already way tired and I really need that rest cause a hard working winter is waiting for me…
So it will take the long lonely path.Edit: Eghi really sorry for high jacking your thread. I hope u understand that when 3ds for Falcon matters hit the surface a lot of harpoons try to catch the pray. And as Johny 5 used to say: “Input I need more Input”…
Hi Lazy, TBH I’m not sure regarding draw calls for smoothing groups, will try to get some answer.
Hi Arty, no 2048 isn’t some magic number, I just used it as an example. The idea is that using 1 large texture is better than many small ones. Texture coordinates for a 3D mesh are saved for each vertex so changing coordinates is better than changing a texture.
I’m not sure I quite understand the idea of material and texture replacement, Changing material will generate extra draw calls because 3D properties are changed, same for changing textures… so the rules are simple:
1. Use as less textures as possible for a 3D model.
2. Use 1 material for a model if possible, use other only if you have to.I won’t try to analyze Deamer’s example above, because simply you can’t really analyze 3D rendering by FPS in Falcon, there are many variants that can cause FPS differences (e.g sometimes if you enter the same mission without exiting Falcon, u will see lower FPS than first entry…), in order to analyze 3D rendering, special tools must be used or special code that can display specific information of the 3D rendered picture (number of resterised vertices, number of draw calls etc).
which I hope - wish we will have the ability to view in the near future as we do now by using the ctrl z L command… or even better inside Falcon Editor…
So either using materials or textures the effect is the same… thing is u can use 4096 or 8192 textures like 2 of them for a large object and save the pain of using 6-10 materials, and maybe go by 2 materials. If u want your object to light up at night then u can’t avoid the second material.
And when we say material we are talking about 3ds materials or Falcon materials? cause 3ds materials can be 100 of them but when exported there are only 2 ptypes, and in my understanding the ptypes are falcon materials. Are the ptypes the materials that count or the 3ds max materials that count?
Cause if it’s ptypes then by using 1000 different materials in 3ds that result to 2 ptypes then it’s better.WD talked about SGs in post # 32.
Do exist a list what exactly do force draw calls?
- each used ptype !
- each used SG ???
- mapping (projection) ???
- etc. ???
Cheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LSAnd Lazy confirms Falcon materials are the ptypes
ptypes
Cheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LSSo to sum it up using 1000 3ds materials (colors actually) is better then using 2-3 textures for the gfx engine… cause those 1000 3ds materials will end up to one ptype.
Now the thing is as I see u change colors on surfaces how do you do that? I see Demer’s ship with a helipad drawn and Radium’s Kuznechof with all that marking on the deck and it’s not textured… how do you do this?
Damn still back to the basics…
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Now the thing is as I see u change colors on surfaces how do you do that? I see Demer’s ship with a helipad drawn and Radium’s Kuznechof with all that marking on the deck and it’s not textured…. how do you do this?
Damn still back to the basics…
Dont know for demer, but on Radium’s model, the deck is not a straight poly, he spent some tris to do the marking in the 3d mesh. Much easier to do to make precise marking, even if you spend some extra tris.
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Well this doesn’t answer my question. You just give me the info that he used mesh instead of poly.
As I search for drawing and the viewport Canvas I see it’s going to generate a texture afterall which is not what we want. So u guys separate (detach) every vertex and then u apply a color on it?
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hmmm same talk here:
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Polygon_Countand Gamefomizer is a tool which returns the count for various vertex types which are used in game engines:
http://jokermartini.com/gamefomizer/ -
Now the thing is as I see u change colors on surfaces how do you do that? I see Demer’s ship with a helipad drawn and Radium’s Kuznechof with all that marking on the deck and it’s not textured…. how do you do this?
Make a material that doesn’t have a bitmap. Set the diffuse colour.
Regards
Dave -
Make a material that doesn’t have a bitmap. Set the diffuse colour.
Regards
DaveDoh!!! thanx WaveyD but I know that much.
So probably u guys create an object as of how it’s painted I believe the mesh B/W colored from Radium’s Kuznechof is an eye opener. Or u create it flat and then cut it… -
As we Dive\Dev into this a bit deeper, WHO said that we must only use Standard\Diffuse Material’s???
Was it U Cuthburt or the Hawk???..…ICRCATM…!!!
Gent’s DO NOT get me wrong here…not a personal attack and I know Damn well what you guy’z are trying to achieve as far as modelling conformity in BMS, I think.
Nice, if you go back and fix what is already there…;)
But, here, “Outside the Box Looking In”The first pic is rendered\painted with DirectX Shader material with shaders ON in Falcon. The second pic is rendered\painted with DirectX Shader material with shaders OFF in Falcon. The third pic is rendered\painted with DirectX Shader material with shaders OFF in Falcon, but and a BIG BUT!, some Parameters were changed for the DirectX Shader material for the third pic.
As well, I used a huge area on the model for this test. Think what could be……??? if I only chose a few Face’s at a time…SEE where I’m going here???
ALL, some limitations here with the Tool’s. First one that comes up is too many pTypes, easily eradicated with Accutrans3D (Tool2,remove Textures on all layers, merge similar layers, merge all,then save as .3DS with options)STATEMENT: I am NOT suggesting in anyway that THIS is the way to go in FalconBMS, VERY Time consuming. I am just stating that there may be other way’s to do “IT”…that we have not looked at YET.
Just some experience in Insanity Ward and playing\making “Sandboxes” with Python over there for MW some years ago…sigh
Cheer’s
demer
(Model is still the same size ~30k…BTW)