Inverted throttle + idle detent not working
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Re: Virpil CM3 Throttle inverted axis
Just as a heads-up, 4.36 now allows for inversion of throttle axis
This is indeed true, however, when using the CM3 Throttle with the axis inverted in BMS (not in VPC Configurator), the idle detent doesnāt work.
Moving the physical throttle forward past the idle detent threshold causes the virtual throttle to go back into the cutoff position. Moving the physical throttle aft past the idle threshold causes the virtual throttle to move forward into the idle position.
I think the function of the idle detent threshold needs to also be reversed if the axis is reversed.
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@RISCfuture if i recall correctly, you have to set cutoff and AB detents after inverting the axis. They wont be automatically be inverted too
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@Tumbler31 Unfortunately, that didnāt do the trick. I launched BMS Launcher, reset the throttle axes to be unassigned, quit and relaunched BMS Launcher, bound the two throttle axes, inverted them, and set the detents.
The idle detent still works backwards. Moving the throttle backwards through the detent causes the in-game throttle to move to the idle position, and moving the throttle forwards through the detent causes the in-game throttle to move to the cutoff position.
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@RISCfuture said in Inverted throttle + idle detent not working:
I launched BMS Launcher
Youāre using the alternative launcher? Iām guessing that then still needs an update. The in-game settings menu should work?
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@Tumbler31 I think I reported this back in 4.36 ā¦ itās very confusing, and maybe borken in a couple different ways.
Repro stepsā¦
1;
set g_bUseAnalogIdleCutoff 12;
Set detents on the Setup / Controllers page.Before pic:
3;
Go into Setup / Controllers / Advanced / Flight. Select āreverseā checkbox for throttle axis.Observe: the detents appear flipped, and the motion of the axis appears reversed. Seems legit!
But wait no thatās not right, because now both the detents and the range of motion are flipped, so itās a double-negativeā¦ hmmā¦
4;
Enter 3D ā¦Observe: throttle motion is totally horked and unusable.
5;
Return to 2D setup screen. Re-establish detents with green on top, red on bottom. āoh I guess they were backward, wtf but okā6;
Enter 3D again ā¦Observe: throttle motion is less horked but still not right. Once moving throttle to near (logical) minimum, it sticks there, and canāt move forward again.
The [shift+3] overlay shows the correct logical throttle position. But the position of the 3d throttle lever (and the actual engine fuel flow) is out of sync with it.
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Pic 1: Reduce logical throttle pos to flight-idleā¦ note 3d throttle lever pos and 2d overlay pos ā¦ seems ok
Pic 2: Increase logical throttle a bit. 3d lever snaps back to idle-cutoff pos, but 2d overlay shows ~20%. actual jet fuel flow goes to zero
Pic 3: Panic and go full throttle ā¦ 3d lever stays stuck in idle-cutoff position ā¦ but 2d overlay shows full burner ā¦ actual jet fuel flow still zero
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@Tumbler31 if it helps debug ā¦ Iām using a VKB not a Virpil, but symptoms are the same. I think the axes are all 16-bit [0-65535] range. (thinking, possible arithmetic-overflow if doing any math with int16 shorts)
actual realistic resolution is more like 11 or 12 bit, but iirc the HID layer reports [0,65535] or [-32768,+32767] logical range for all axes
I have some test code handy to output the HID report, if you need me to doublecheck that.
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@airtex2019 thanks for checking all this, all have a look. I also have a VKB and I thought it worked ok when I created this.
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@Tumbler31 just to try to eliminate VKB/Virpil as a causeā¦ I plugged in a Xbox controller, and mapped the Z-axis (the triggers) to throttle. everything I described above still repros.
but surprisingly, Joy.cpl shows the range of values is [0-65535] ā¦ and VKB joytester shows range as [-32768,+32767] (it was surprising to me, I assumed it would be an 8-bit range)
(in HID terms I think āphysical rangeā is the unsigned int16 and ālogical rangeā is the signed int16 ā¦ but I forget which of those you get from DirectInput API)
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@airtex2019 issue found, should be fixed in a next release.
dinput reads the values as long, and I think most devices will send 16bit. To prevent issues with some devices sending 0/+max and others -max/+max, bms forces the behaviour depending on the axis
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@Tumbler31 Just tested this out on U3. Still broken, but better!
I used the Alternative Launcher to set myA/B and idle thresholds correctly, like so:
But then launching into BMS, the axis thresholds are reversed (red on top, green on bottom):
You can fix this by setting the thresholds in BMS itself, but of course, that fix is overwritten next time you launch using the AL.
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@RISCfuture thanks, will look into a fix for this
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I made a guide addressing this very issue. You can find it here - https://forum.falcon-bms.com/topic/25900/solution-t50cm3-setting-up-physical-idle-detents-fixing-throttle-range-issues-in-bms-good-for-bms-dcs-and-other-flight-sims
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@MandolinHarm I followed your guide and it doesnāt really address the reversed/broken throttle axis issue. You still have to manually set the detents in the settings page every time you launch the game for the axis to work properly.
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@joshr03 yeah the second have of my post which addresses the broken inverted issue is really just a temporary workaround for a new issue present on U3. The core of the post is meant to help users get proper idle detents setup.
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I have the Virpil CM3 Throttle and I have been battling the issue described here. I cannot fly BMS 4.37 U3 for the time being. Engine management is just uncontrollable. My aircraft will just run away from the taxi position.
I will wait for a fix for this bug.
Thanks to the BMS guys for your work. It is sad I cannot enjoy the new features in BMS 4.47 U3. -
@Ernestwinslow said in Inverted throttle + idle detent not working:
I have the Virpil CM3 Throttle and I have been battling the issue described here. I cannot fly BMS 4.37 U3 for the time being. Engine management is just uncontrollable. My aircraft will just run away from the taxi position.
I will wait for a fix for this bug.
Thanks to the BMS guys for your work. It is sad I cannot enjoy the new features in BMS 4.47 U3.Check this Post
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@Ernestwinslow - I had the same problem. Go into your Virpil software and select āinversionā for each throttle. Let me know if it works for you.
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@VIPER-0 Copy that. Thanks.
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@Ernestwinslow fix in progress but will be a few days. I will post a beta build soon, for any Virpil owners who want to help test.
What I would try, in meantimeā¦
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Do all of your axis and button setup in Alt Launcher.
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Once in BMS, re-configure your throttle axis/axes and detents. Click āsaveā or āapplyā
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Alt+Tab out to Windows, and make a backup copy of your axismapping.dat and joystick.cal files
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Until we get AL fixedā¦ launch BMS directly via the exe. (from the /bin/x64 subfolder) Make yourself a desktop shortcut, with the cmd line params you like ā¦ eg
"Falcon BMS.exe" -window -nomovie -vr
Before each BMS sessionā¦ or at least, anytime after using ALā¦ replace the axismapping.dat and joystick.cal files with the versions you saved away in step 3.
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