TM Viper TQS: TARGET and Win 11 Incompatibility
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@Tomcattwo it was an honest explanation though, from someone who actually knew … both things surprising and rare, these days
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What you can do with these LEDs is very limited. Don’t get to upset about them not working as advertised…they aren’t working as they should anyway .
The only thing that might be useful would be the GEAR/WHEELs stuff. But only for the sake of knowing that you forgot to lower/raise it.
They could easily implement a simple on/off switch into the Thrustmaster Joystick Panel if it’s just about an on/off setting. They could on top of that implement logically given things that are “default” if the depending buttons are pressed. No need for TARGET at all. Besides that, @airtex2019 is right with what he’s writing. Being honest to upset customers isn’t very common these days.
My “findings” so far (I refer to the T.A.R.G.E.T GUI, maybe their C-like scripting language could solve some of the issues):
Wheels and Lollypop
4 LEDs that can be On or Off. Wheels LEDs are multicolor (for whatever reason…) you can choose between a dozent colors. Lollypop is red only. Without any feedback from your sim they are on or off regardless of the state in the sim purely based on the state which button is pressed /depressedTWA:
5 LEDS (LOW ALT has a red and a green LED, the remaining three buttons have green only).1. No feedback from the sim, no interaction with the LEDs. I’m a complete beginner regarding the workings of an f16, but…-
if I click on S in the sim, it blinks until I click it again. You just can’t do that indefinetly in T.A.R.G.E.T. At least I didn’t found a way to do so. YOu could setup a few on/off states with a few hundret milliseconds apart to match the 4hz sequence the thing in your pit does. But thats about it. So the most natural thing to do would be to programm a sequence of “firs click led on, second click led off”. Everything else would break logically because the wqay sequences seem to work in T.A.R.G.E.T.
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POWER has one green LED. There is no red/orange one to reflect the “ACTIVITY” led from the cockpit. It lights up in the cockpit when I click S, but there is no equivalent on the ButtonBox because they didn’t add a red led here…
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ALTITUDE has either red or gren led on/off. So the button is either red or green. I don’t get the point why they did this. This red LED should have been as a second LED between the POWER thingy and physically seperated by a .02ct black blastic thingy to have two independent lightings below the POWER button. ALTITUDE has two green light segments in the sim and they replaced this logic by having a red and a green one…this seems awkward to me. MAybe other F16 variants look different on the TWA panel. I have no clue. You can’t swap colors directly. You need a proper ON/OFF sequence. If doing it in a sequence, TWO clicks are required to change colors…so you even can’t emulate the two LEDs from the cockpit with it. Chances are, I’m doing it wrong,…
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SYSTEM POWER has a green LED. When pressed it shuts ALL LEDs off. While this is possible in general with T.A.R.G.E.T., it’s not properly implemented when using sequences of any of those other 3 buttons. They remember their state in the sequence and SYSTEM POWER does not reset the sequence…so if you have a “first press on, second press off” sequence on button A and disable LED of button A by a press of button B, button A sequence state is “ON” from button As view while it is “OFF” in reality…This requires you to press button A twice at which point yll your LED logic goes south…
The LEDs below EMER STORES / JETTISON are one color only. Yet another strange design decision. Why on earth do we need 16 colors on wheel LEDs but only one on completely generic LEDs…
I’d say it’s main purpose is “Button Box”. The LED concept looks like all of this was rushed by a “time to market” business monkey. I just can’t get the logic behind it. It’s an otherwise nice toy, but this LED stuff is,…meh…It’s even documented properly…you need to try stuff and count LEDs by yourself…
What you could try: create a VM (VirtualBox or the like) running Windows 10, try rto passtroguh the Thrustmaster USB devices and install T.A.R.G.E.T. there. Create a profile to switch desired LED statically in the desired color and shut the VM down. The LEDs stay in their current ON/OFF state as long as you pull the USB plug / reboot.
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@r00t
Thanks for taking the time to provide a detailed explanation. Those are some great suggestions and superb information. The PC I just replaced does run Win 10 and is currently right below my desk, within easy plug-in distance to the Viper TQS. I may just give that a try, as you suggested, re: LEDs.With Respect,
Tomcattwo
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@airtex2019 said in TM Viper TQS: TARGET and Win 11 Incompatibility:
@Tomcattwo it was an honest explanation though, from someone who actually knew … both things surprising and rare, these days
Airtex2019, I agree completely with you about his honesty and the amount of detailed information the TM rep provided. I wrote a (draft) email in reply, but, as I was a little hot, and as I learned to do a long time ago when email was first invented), if you have a hot outgoing, sit on it a while (preferably overnight) and then think about the consequences of firing off the missile before you hit the pickle button. Likely I will just thank him for providing honest information.
That said, I felt it important to provide to the BMS community, since this info is not immediately apparent from the advertising hype. Hence, this thread.
With respect,
Tomcattwo
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@Tomcattwo
LED Reference chart (TM has a strange sense of humor…LED14 is for Button DX13, LED15 for Button DX14…you had one job…:D)https://forum.falcon-bms.com/post/383845 shows how to configure basic LED stuff for 1+2+3+19 depending on LG to get you started.
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@Tomcattwo
Thanks for all this info brought to our attention. -
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@Tomcattwo said in TM Viper TQS: TARGET and Win 11 Incompatibility:
I recently purchased a new PS system (mostly for anticipated BMS 4.38) which came with Windows 11 OS. I also purchased a brandy-new TM Viper TQS with the Button Box ($500) to replace my 23 year old HOTAS Cougar throttle. I’ve just now gotten around to setting up my Falcon peripherals, as well as the new Viper TQS. I downloaded the drivers for the Viper (it installed fine and works properly in Windows Control Panel). I also downloaded the latest version of TARGET software (3.0.23.608), after reading on the forum about needing TARGET to program Viper Button Box LEDs and maybe combining my Cougar (with VFS-SE) stick and Viper throttle together.
When I tried to install TARGET, Win 11 refused to install the drivers, with notes saying the drivers were not allowed while Win 10’s Core Integrity defense was in place. Core Integrity is default on Win 11 22HXX updates and beyond, and basically very stringently protects the CPU from malware attacks.
Maybe i’m misunderstanding, but I just (re) installed Win11 Pro, updated to 23H2 build 22631.2506, installed TARGET just fine and it works without issue? I only use it to install a “Warthog 128 DX” script to allow full use of all switch positions on my throttle, but have seen no issues.
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@Icer Windows 11 core Isolation on or off? TM said, it must be OFF to get T.A.R.G.E.T. working properly: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/options-to-optimize-gaming-performance-in-windows-11-a255f612-2949-4373-a566-ff6f3f474613#:~:text=Select Start %2C enter 'Core Isolation,need to restart your device.
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@r00t said in TM Viper TQS: TARGET and Win 11 Incompatibility:
@Icer Windows 11 core Isolation on or off? TM said, it must be OFF to get T.A.R.G.E.T. working properly
As you can see, mine is apparently set to off by default somehow (again, fresh install), and TARGET Script Editor (tried Command Center also) runs just fine! It seems that “To use memory integrity, you must have hardware virtualization enabled in your system’s UEFI or BIOS.”, and I must not have it enabled, I am not going to lose sleep over it as I seem to have never had it ON!