VR Input Devices
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It’s been a year since VR was implemented and I want to know some input setups you guys use while flying in VR and to check for some advice.
I want to fly in Falcon BMS in VR, Quest 2, and plan on using OpenKneeboard, maybe VoiceAttack in the futureDo you guys peek under the googles to use the keyboard or have you mastered blind usage? Any keyboard mapping tips to use it with VR?
Does anyone use a Razer Tartarus or similar keyboard alternative/extra device?Do you use your regular mouse or do you have a tracking ball mouse, maybe bolted somewhere? Maybe some other method for cockpit interaction?
Are your HOTAS inputs the same as in non VR flying or did you comprise some buttons for VR specific use?
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Normally, i don’t need to peek under the googles; i keep at minimum the interaction with the keyboard, using instead some of the switches on the WinWing throttle base (Recenter, Openkneeboard page control ecc…)
My Hotas has the same inputs as in non VR, fundamentally the real counterparts functions (slightly adapted from F-18 to F-16)
For the radio comms i’m an extremely happy user of VoiceAttack.
For the cockpit manipulation i use my regular mouse, hoping that one day the use of PointCtrl or Leap Motion will be implemented. -
@Cryo I’ve been 100% VR for flying for about 3 years now, obviously only 1 of those in BMS.
My personal preference is to never touch the mouse. I have BMS (and other sims) configured to have the mouse cursor follow my head movement - basically where my HMCS cross is looking, that’s where my mouse is. I then have left/right mouse buttons bound to my HOTAS. I also have a small wheel on my stick (NXT) which I use as the mouse scroll wheel.
For BMS, the only time I touch my keyboard is on the very rare occasion that FoxVox doesn’t understand me for a radio call. I can do that with a quick peek under the nose bit of the headset just by tipping my head back a little.
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@Cryo
I just got my new Quest 3 setup and working in BMS last week, so I am experimenting with how best to function in this new environment.
First, let me say that I was completely blown away the first time I flew BMS in VR. 2D simply cannot compare with what you see in VR. The BMS team has done a masterful job (in my opinion) getting this implemented. The VR cockpit is amazing. That said, we are all still working out how best to do what we need to do in the new VR cockpit.First, my setup: see below in my sig. I run a “desktop pit” consisting of a HOTAS Cougar stick converted to Force Sensitive (using a ViperGear VFS-WE), a Thrustmaster Viper TQS (with Mission Box), 2 x Thrustmaster MFDs with 7" Eyoyo monitors pulling RTTE info, a SimGears ICP (which I LOVE for the ease of input), and a PSM DED+FFI. I spent quite a few $$ on that gear and was initially hesitant to go down the VR road as a result. But after reading a lot of the thread here, and after upgrading my system (from a 2013 system) and network, I decided to give VR a go.
First off, the Quest 3 has a color pass-through capability organic to the device. There are threads here on the forums showing how some sim-pilots have used Virtual Desktop plus a small app named Reality Mixer to allow passthrough on a Quest 3 to be able to show the keyboard/desktop pit items, essentially “overwriting” the VR Pit while maintaining VR visibility outside the VR cockpit. I have not gone down that road yet, though I have the software, mostly because the BMS VR 'pit is so dang-blasted beautiful! The Quest 3 also allows to switch between VR and passthrough by double-tapping the headset. Because it takes some time to switch inputs, and is immersion-breaking, I have not done that, and the Quest 3 passthrough is a little hard to read unless you lean in toward the monitor/phone.
Next, the Quest 3 mask (straight from the box) has a bit of space at the bottom where it does not sit tightly on my cheeks - which actually works quite well for me. I wear bifocal glasses (inside the Quest 3 mask too) so I am used to looking down to read and up for distance. So I have been able to quite easily peer just under the mask to see the keyboard, MFDs and MFD buttons, ICP and Viper Mission Box switches. As this is sort of like a “head’s down” aspect in the cockpit, I do not find this immersion-breaking at all. I haven’t had any issues generally speaking,peering under the mask to find the right button or key when I need to, so I am still making use of my desktop 'pit hardware.
I am also a VERY happy user of Voice Attack and @SemlerPDX 's superb AVCS profile (combined with the Virtual Crew Chief for BMS profile that @Ricky and I developed for Voice Attack). I use Voice Attack for all comms, and some hardware control/game functions (pause sim, etc.). I haven’t yet programmed Voice Attack to do cockpit knobology commands, but I am certain I can make it do whatever 'pit control button crunching I want, if I wanted to.That said, as @Topo-0 mentioned, I really want to be able to (also) interact with the VR pit using PointControl or something similar. Today, as I am learning to fly in VR, I am using the mouse in the cockpit. It is sometimes hard to find the mouse where I want it in the VR pit, and so it does slow down my ability to flip multiple switches/buttons in succession (for example setting up the aircraft for AAR, etc.). It’ll get better as I practice.
One issue: the Quest 3 built in microphone is TERRIBLE! It has poor pickup and low input volume and I simply could not get it to work reliably with Voice Attack. My workaround: Soundcore VR P10 earbuds, with the dongle hooked into my desktop PC via a USB C to USB A converter. Works great and makes it independent of the VR headset.
I also fly using a VRCover 5m Premium USB C cable connected to the 10 GB USB C port on my Desktop PC. This works very reliably and keeps the Quest 3 battery charged up for several hours of mission time. I have had less success using Oculus AirLink, and no success using a D-Link USB module (which really messed with my network settings.
When trying all the available connection options (Quest 3 to PC) when I first started experimenting with the Quest 3, I found that my old network (cable modem and router) was severely underpowered and outdated, so I upgraded both (to a Netgear Nighthawk CM2050V 2.5 Gig-speed cable modem and Netgear Nighthawk 5300 dual channel 6G router). That solved the airlink issues. That said, I still prefer the cable link for the recharge power.
I hope this helps with some of your thought processes. I feel like VR for BMA is on the edge of becoming the de rigueur way to fly for those that have not sunk thousands into a complete home pit. But there is still a long way to go before solutions are found to more easily interact with the cockpit. There are folks working at finding a way to do so, as in this thread. That said, I am now hooked on flying VR, and feeling pretty comfortable looking under the mask when needed and using Voice Attack with @SemlerPDX 's AVCS, and my other deskpit input devices. As always, YMMV.
Regards, -
@rubbra said in VR Input Devices:
My personal preference is to never touch the mouse. I have BMS (and other sims) configured to have the mouse cursor follow my head movement - basically where my HMCS cross is looking, that’s where my mouse is. I then have left/right mouse buttons bound to my HOTAS. I also have a small wheel on my stick (NXT) which I use as the mouse scroll wheel.
I was wondering if you could click were you aimed with the HMCS, but I never found a binding for it. Did you bind the mouse buttons to your HOTAS using FoxVox?
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@Cryo I definitely use a look under mod on most my headsets. I haven’t done it to the Crystal because there are no extra facial interfaces and the MFDs are very readable with it but I still have the ability display my MFD with RTT Export on my extra monitor. I still miss the mod to see all my switches of my not 1:1 home cockpit. If PointCTRL worked with BMS, I wouldn’t have the want for that even. I could be 100% inside the Crystal
I use a trackball (left side) and mouse a lot for cockpit interface, almost as much as I go for my generic layout physical switches. Maybe if I was 1:1, I could find the physical ones better and not use the mouse/trackball as much. Again though if PointCTRL was a thing, I would only need my button box for my switches and buttons like gear handle and master arm that I’d like to be able to activate without looking at them that PointCTRL/mouse/VR controllers require (which the later is not supported as well with BMS).
On my MFDs and ICP I use drawer bumpers to give tactile feedback on which buttons I’m on without looking and I also use 3d printed switch caps for the same purpose with switches.
Definitely VoiceAttack and @SemlerPDX’s profile for radio comms.
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@Cryo not via fozvox, just in bms keybinds.
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@Cryo said in VR Input Devices:
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I want to fly in Falcon BMS in VR and plan on using OpenKneeboard, maybe VoiceAttack in the future
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Does anyone use a Razer Tartarus or similar keyboard alternative/extra device?Some form of passthrough might be smart, Quest 3 has far better camera pass through than the Quest 2 according to what I’ve read and reviews I’ve watched so far. Personally, I’d be using my over-the-ear wireless headphones + microphone on top of the Quest 3 - the 3rd party headband plus battery pack I’m eyeballing appears that it would fit just fine with my model of headset given the space between the head-band and head, and the size of the earcups helping with that (Logitech G935 Wireless 7.1 Surround Sound). If I was ready to replace my old original Oculus Rift, the Quest 3 would be the one I’d buy today.
VoiceAttack is a perfect addition to VR even for simple quality of life helpers for Windows, as well as issuing keypress commands in games which accept them. Not all VR games allow keyboard interactions the way non-VR games do, and by itself VoiceAttack cannot send button presses (such as emulating a VR controller), though other utility software may be able to (like vJoy with UJR) and VoiceAttack could interact with these, I have not seen any native VR games which allowed setting the controllers to something different (such as emulated vJoy devices).
Definitely check out VoiceAttack to free yourself from the keyboard while flying BMS in VR - or any voice control software, really. I can’t imagine trying to use keyboard commands for a simulator like this while having a monitor strapped to my face, regardless of the camera passthrough feature.
IMHO the Razer Tartarus makes a fairly complete interface for the ICP, but for a few mode select buttons along the top. More recent offerings by Razer have an extra row of keys which would negate this drawback entirely. The way I map my Razer as ICP looks like this, making it possible to use by feel alone without ever looking at it:
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Yeah, found the keybinds in the Technical Menu, wasn’t in my keyfile.
For anyone wondering, the callbacks are:
SimToggleCursorCenter // CKPIT: Toggle Mouse Cursor Center SimClickButtonLeft // CKPIT: Left Click Buttons - Up/Cw SimClickButtonRight // CKPIT: Right Click Buttons - Down/Ccw
Also, set g_b3DClickableCursorFixToCenter 1 in Falcon BMS User.cfg to use your head to aim the cursor
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I seem to have gotten inputs down, the only fiddly thing is the qwerty comms panel.
Performance on my machine isn’t good though, hoping that can change after OpenXR gets implemented in a future update -
@Cryo use voiceattack or fozvox for comms. Just press the radio button and talk to it.